I think fighting styles don’t need lost techniques because of the fact that magic is only getting lost spells since it hasn’t been very versatile and has pretty much played the same in pvp for about 4 years. Not giving fighting styles lost techniques wouldn’t hurt anybody as strength builds have strength weapons, upgrades and fs users can imbue their fs on a weapon while magic users can imbue their magic onto their fs Magic deserves lost spells because of how non meta it is magic by itself isn’t terrible it just isn’t as versatile as weapon skills or as diverse as the customization you get with fighting styles.
Although this is just my opinion let me know your thoughts on this
That’s only for savant and warlord. Sure, with other builds they work, but not as well.
Only savants can do that.
Without lost and rare techniques, fighting style users stuck with the same attacks the entire game while with magic you can get spells like Transformation and Magic Arm.
And if fighting styles don’t get lost techniques, they’ll have the same 6 base techniques through the whole game and drag behind in terms of versatility/variety (which is your criticism of magic). Yes base techniques have been said to have higher customization than base spells, but that doesn’t mean they’re on the level on lost spells.
Magic can basically do all of these. Magic and strength are meant to be similar in design, close counterparts. Wouldn’t make sense to give magic the opportunity to increase the depth of versatility they have while one remains stagnant fo rth ewhole game.
You’re acting like magic is bad as it is right now, which I highly doubt that it is. Each of them have their own playstyle, and you mentioned how it’s non-meta when we don’t even know what the meta is. Vetex even slightly reworked most spells a few months ago which likely balanced it out compared to weapons some more.
Restating an earlier point, it’s pretty obvious that leaving fighting styles with their 6 base techniques while magics get a plethora of spells & weapons get rare weapons with potentially unique skills is not a very balanced idea
hello its me Draconyx, and on today’s episode of “Draconyx writes a fucking essay on the meta of a game that isn’t even out yet” we will be talking about fighting style techniques. Keep in mind every time i talk about lost techniques, this can also be applied to artisan weapons for similar reason. Ill try to keep this brief but yes they do need lost techniques but not because fighting styles wont be meta, but rather to balance the individual fighting style builds. Magics and Fighting styles, unlike weapons, have a diminishing return. Having too many magics or styles makes it hard to switch between them and use each one in its specific scenario. This is because Magics and Fighting styles are closely related to each other just being reskins of themselves. Weapons on the other hand will always get better the more you have because their skills vary from weapon type and different skills from different weapons will be meta. Having multiple magics is balanced out due to status effects. Yes you probably wont be using every spell in every magic in one of you fights, but you will still be using them to combine status effects to multiply damage. Fighting styles don’t have something that distinguishes themselves from each other since I’m assuming they wont get overpowered status effects as that would make lost magics anticlimactic. In this scenario, it makes sense to use a mixed build, something like warlock or warlord(i think this is the weapon/fighting one i forgor). This is because you are trading some of your fighting styles for weapons/magics while keeping your original damage because weapons will scale off of fighting and fighting will scale off of magic. This ultimately makes berserker useless, and that’s where lost techniques come in. Instead of trading fighting styles for other more useful abilities due to diminishing returns, you can just keep investing in fighting styles to unlock lost techniques which completely negates diminishing returns. Since lost techniques, like lost magics and artisan weapons, are dependent on the amount of stat points you have allocated, it makes them unique to only berserkers (or some high level hybrid builds but that wont happen until midgame-endgame). In this sense, lost techniques act as a counterweight to magic/weapon infusions to balance the fighting style class tree as a whole and should thus be compared to these types of skills rather than be compared to lost spells which are being added to balance specifically magic not the magic classes. The magic class tree will be balanced off of lost magics similarly to how weapons will be balanced off of artisan weapons and vitality will be balanced off of spirit weapons.
tldr: They are necessary. There are two types of balancing, balancing fighting styles as a whole and balancing the fighting style classes. Lost spells balance magic as a whole, whereas lost techniques balance fighting style classes and thus are used for different purposes,
MAGIC:
Mage: Lost magics
Warlock: Fighting infusions
Conjurer: Weapon infusions
(notice how lost spells are not on the list. this is because lost spells balance magic as a whole, not the magic classes)
FIGHTING:
Berserker: Lost techniques
Warlock: Magic infusion
Warlord: Weapon infusion
(notice how lost techniques balance berserker specifically, not fighting styles as a whole)
You are trying to compare lost techniques to lost spells when it would make more sense to compare them to lost magics. Deleting lost techniques would impact berserkers the same as if you deleted lost magics from mages so yes it is necessary.
true i can see that from a conceptual level it really depends on how vetex chooses to balance the game. This college thesis paper was written under the assumption that lost magics are much harder to get than lost fighting styles. Considering that you can just evolve base styles into lost styles it wouldn’t make much sense to make lost styles extremely rare like lost magics. Magics also need lost spells to function as the magic spell system and playstyle as a whole needs more variety to be balanced. Fighting styles on the other hand works just fine without lost techniques and are just needed to make investments on fighting stats more rewarding due to diminishing returns which is also just an assumption based on the knowledge vetex has given us on how stats work.
Dont forget to include the fact that fighting styles can be imbued onto weapons and at the bare minimum magics only get 5 lost spells which is needed for diversity in its kit and there’s also strength weapons which isnt 100 percent strength stat but still exclusive to strength
strength weapons are mainly for warlrod build and could be used by savants you need points into weapons to use them
fighting style imbuing is also for warlord and savants could get their arcanium strength weapons but i digress.
Magic gets all the things you are saying is op for fighting styles, they can imbue their magic onto weapons with conjurer, and even have arcanium weapons. and if it really hurts you that much, just use magic + fighting styles.
found an easier way to explain it so heres another chart
although it seems like lost techniques are to lost spells as lost magics are to lost fighting styles, they serve different roles in balancing.
Lost spells: available to all magic classes and serve to make magic as a whole better
Lost techniques: available to only high investment fighting stat builds (berserker) and serve to make that specific class better
Lost magic: available to only high investment magic stat builds (mage) and serve to make that specific class better
Lost fighting styles: available to all fighting classes and serve to make fighting as a whole better
Lost spells are more similar to lost styles and lost magic are more similar to lost techniques despite it sounding contradictory
I think you might have it backwards, or i’m misunderstanding what you’re saying
Lost techniques will be obtainable quite early in the game’s progression, i believe vetex said that lost spells and techniques will be available as early as level 30. As long as you have enough points into strength (which will presumably be around 60 points since Vet estimated level 30) you’ll be able to use them, even if you’re not a berserker or a high strength class
Yeah i can kinda see what you’re saying here (although not only mages will get lost spells, magic hybrids will as well but I still see your point)
I think you might have lost FS and lost techniques confused; lost fighting styles will have a high strength stat requirement and only be usable by berskers and strength hybrids