Proposed Balance Changes for Guild Update

Proposed Balance Changes for Guild Update
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Weapons Balancing:
  1. All weapons should have their overall damage lowered by 40%, and make weapon damage scale with the player’s destruction stat. The damage scaling with your destruction stat will be different for each weapon, so that we can balance each weapon’s damage accordingly.
  • Daggers, Dual Daggers and Bows will scale with 0.6x your destruction stat.
    1 handed/1.5 handed Swords, Spears, and Crossbows will scale with 1.0x your destruction stat.
    Clubs will scale with 1.1x your destruction stat.
    Vastira will scale with 1.0x your destruction stat so that its damage remains balanced.
    Oathkeeper’s melee slashes will scale with 1.0x your destruction stat, but Raging Storm will only scale with 0.4x your destruction stat per slash, as if it scaled any higher each slash would deal far too much damage.
  • This is greatly needed as right now as all weapons do the same amount of damage whether you’re running a full magic power build or a full tank build, so forcing players to add some destruction to deal respectable damage with weapons will weaken the full tank meta.
    Example: Currently a level 80 Strong Sunken Sword does 115 damage when you cast Rising Tide, so if overall weapon damage was decreased by 40%, it would now deal 69 damage with no destruction stats. Now, since the sunken sword’s destruction stat multiplier will be 1.0x, then you’ll need 46 destruction in order to get back to dealing 115 damage.
    In practice, this would force a full tank user to slot in a destruction amulet and change a few enchants, causing them to go from 1191 health to around 900-1000.
  1. Dual Dagger Throw (for all dual daggers) should have a 10 second cooldown, but you should still be able to use them for melee attacks after 5 seconds.
  • Right now, level 80 Strong Dual Daggers can hit you for 130 damage each, totaling for 260 damage with a nearly non existent cast time and having a projectile speed equal to light magic. The damage they will deal should ideally be lowered by the destruction changes, but their cooldown should also be increased as they still easily apply bleed and deal heavy burst damage.
  1. Great Spin’s cooldown should be increased to 5 seconds
  • Great Spin is the easiest way to apply bleed in the game currently, and with only a 0.2s cast time and a 2 second cooldown, it’s very easy to spam and requires very little skill considering how big the aoe is. Giving it a longer cooldown will decrease how easily it can be abused for free damage and bleed combos.
  1. Sunken Sword’s Rising Tide ability should have its cast time increased to 0.5 seconds, and its cooldown increased to 8 seconds.
  • Rising Tide is still the most powerful skill in the game because of its unique ability to provide free movement and damage, while having an extremely quick cast time and no endlag, allowing for some pretty broken combos. Increasing its cast time will give players some counterplay and allow them to properly time a block, and the longer cooldown will decrease the ability to spam it as often during fights. It will still retain its mobility and lack of endlag, so it will still be a very powerful weapon despite these nerfs.
  1. Oathkeeper’s Raging Storm ability should have its cooldown increased to 10 seconds, and remove its ability to clash with magic blasts.
  • Currently, Raging Storm acts as a multi blast with extreme speed, high damage, and large hitboxes, and combined with its ability to defeat every single magic blast in a clash, it’s essentially unpunishable except by other weapons. Considering how quick and powerful Raging Storm is, it shouldn’t be able to clash with magic blasts in order to allow for more counterplay when fighting against it, so that you can stand a chance to punish someone using it without taking more damage than you would deal and having your own attacks destroyed in the process.
  1. Vastira’s Mighty Crash ability should have its cooldown increased to 10 seconds, and its endlag increased to 1.5 seconds.
  • Mighty Crash has a massive hitbox and high damage, and although its cast time allows for players to time a perfect block, its low endlag allows you to quickly act again after casting it, rendering it almost unpunishable. Giving it an exta half second of endlag after it finishes casting will allow you to properly punish your opponents when they use it, but it will still retain its utility as a high damage aoe and deleting magic projectiles when you initially cast it.
  1. Bows (not crossbows) should have their overall damage lowered by 50% instead of 40%.
  • Level 80 Strong Bows currently deal around 100 damage with a firerate of 1 arrow every second, meanwhile level 80 Strong Crossbows only deal 120 damage with a firerate of 1 arrow every 2 seconds. Considering how quickly bows can fire, and how they have virtually no cast time or endlag can often times make them a better form of damage than using magic blasts. Lowering the damage output of regular bows a bit more should bring them in line with other weapons, and also give the crossbow more of a purpose with more appealing damage.
  1. You shouldn’t be able to equip 2 weapons with the same ability, such as equipping an Old Sword and a Castlian Sword.
  • This is pretty self explanatory, you shouldn’t be able to bypass the cooldown of an ability simply by equipping another version of the same weapon, and in the future when more powerful weapons that share the same ability are released, it would be problematic if you could use it twice as often as intended.
Magic Balancing:
  1. Acid Magic’s impact damage should be lowered from 0.9x to 0.875x, and its damage bonus from the Bleeding status should be lowered to 15%.
  • Acid is a jack of all trades magic that combines good speed, base damage, magic interactions, and a dot all into one. With very easy ways to apply bleed such as Great Spin, Rising Tide, etc, acid almost always has a 25% damage boost currently. Toning it down to 15% and having the bleeding be removed will bring Acid more in line with other dot magics such as Magma, Fire, and Plasma, which all have bleeding removed in exchange for their damage bonuses.
  1. Fire Magic’s Burning status effect should have its damage lowered to 35% of the original attack’s damage, dealt 5 times over 5 seconds.
  • Despite previous nerfs, Fire magic is still one of the most powerful magics due to its ability to apply constant pressure in the form of its dot by landing just one attack. Not to mention, this dot is currently just a straight upgrade from Acid and Magma’s Melting status effect, which takes 2x longer to deal the same damage as burning does. Lowering the amount of damage burning does will tone down how much pressure it can apply just from being hit once, but it will still remain powerful due to being able to constantly reapply it every 5 seconds.
  1. Plasma Magic’s Scorched status effect should have its damage lowered to 35% of the original attack’s damage, dealt 5 times over 5 seconds.
  • The same reasoning for nerfing Burning also applies to Scorched.
  1. Glass Magic’s impact damage should be lowered from 0.9x to 0.875x.
  • This is to bring it in line along with the nerfs to acid magic, as they’re both similar magics that leave damaging hazards on the ground, however glass also has the ability to stack bleeding when you land multiple attacks, so a slight damage nerf should help keep it fair.
  1. Paper Magic’s impact damage should be lowered from 0.9x to 0.85x
  • For a magic with high projectile speed and a bleed dot that you can stack the same way glass can, paper has surprisingly high impact damage. Along with the changes to the other powerful magics, this nerf should keep it relatively balanced compared to the other magics with its speed and potential damage output.
  1. Acid and Magma’s Melting status should be considered two different status effects that can stack together.
  • Considering how Burning and Scorched from fire and plasma can be applied at the same time, it doesn’t make much sense to discourage players from using acid and magma by not allowing them to apply both of their statuses. This is a more minor change that shouldn’t affect very much until players have access to more than 1 magic.
Overall Combat Changes:

** This specific change is outdated, and won’t be going into effect. You can disregard it.

  1. Magic High Jumps should have a cooldown of 2 seconds while you’re considered “In Combat”.
  • Although combat is meant to be based in the air as that’s the direction Vetex wants to take it, right now magic jumps are just absurdly spammable, and it allows people to stall in the air to regen health, wait off cooldowns, and overall lower the quality of combat since you essentially can’t punish them. Allowing players to only use one magic jump at a time instead of spamming it when they’re in danger will make it easier to land attacks, and to punish them if they’re low on stamina or energy and have no other way to escape.

** This specific change is outdated, and won’t be going into effect. You can disregard it.

  1. Solid Magic High Jumps should function identically to other magics’ high jumps.
  • Although there were measures put in place to remove permanently air stalling with solid magics’ high jumps, it’s still very possible and very easy to pull off, rendering solid magic users literally unkillable if they choose to just start jumping their way into the atmosphere. While it makes sense that you’d be able to stand on a solid object that you’ve created for a moment, balance-wise it’s unfair and unfun to fight, and even with a cooldown to magic high jumps during combat, solid magic users would be able to wait it out as they can high jump off of their solid pillar, charge their magic, and then use another magic high jump again, essentially bypassing the cooldown.
  1. You should only be considered “In Combat” if you take damage, not by dealing damage.
  • This change is to prevent people being able to permanently run away the moment they put some distance between you and them, since when you’re in combat your stamina regeneration is greatly reduced, and as the attacker you have to pause your movement in order to deal your damage, but your opponent is free to continue running away and further increase the gap between you and them. Even if you manage to hit them from far away with a beam, your stamina regeneration will immediately be lowered, and any hopes of catching up to them become practically impossible. With this change, though, you’d retain a much higher stamina regeneration rate than your opponent if they don’t continue attacking you, allowing you to chase them down as they eventually run out of stamina.
  1. Power Amulets should have the amount of power they grant lowered by 12.5%
  • Since the Wizard set and Strong enchantment give less total stat points than other gear/enchantments, it’s only fair if it’s the same for Power Amulets, as they currently give the same stats as all other amulets.
  1. Destruction Amulets should have the amount of destruction they grant lowered by 12.5%
  • This is to mirror the nerf to power amulets, as destruction is now a similarly potent stat.
  1. Minotaur’s Armor set should have the amount of destruction it grants and the amount of agility it grants switched, so that it grants more agility than destruction.
  • Same reasoning as above, destruction is now a damage boosting stat, so the amount granted by minotaur’s armor needs to be lowered a bit so that players aren’t dealing more damage with weapons than intended. It will grant more agility as a tradeoff, as it’s still a rare boss drop that should remain powerful.
  1. Dual Bracelets should have the amount of destruction they grant lowered by 50%.
  • This might seem like a big nerf, but it’s to have the amount of destruction bracelets grant made equal to the amount of power that wizard hats grant, so that destruction sets aren’t numerically stronger than magic sets.
  1. You should only be able to equip one type of a stat-boosting amulet at a time (you could still wear multiple amulets, but not a poor and dull amulet of the same stat type).
  • Amulets are currently the most powerful accessories in the game, and there’s little reason to equip other items considering how many stats they grant. Limiting amulets by being unable to stack too much of the same stat should prevent stats from becoming bloated in the future.

And that’s about it, thanks for reading.

Edit: Made use of the “hide details” feature so you don’t have to stare at a wall of text the entire time.

This post is now fully complete, any further edits will only be made to fix typos or grammatical issues. Thank you to everyone who gave constructive feedback.

2 Likes

:white_check_mark: = agree, :x: = disagree, :white_check_mark: :x:= partially agree
Weapons Balancing Responses:

  1. :white_check_mark: I agree, I think that’s what is gonna happen anyways.
  2. :white_check_mark: I think I agree though there could be alternate solutions.
  3. :white_check_mark: The cooldown number could potentially be adjusted but yes there should be a longer cooldown.
  4. :white_check_mark: Yes yes yes, as mentioned before maybe the cd could be adjusted.
  5. :white_check_mark: :x: I still think Raging Storm should have the blast clashing but otherwise yes, maybe instead it could have more end-lag, as mentioned before maybe the cd could be adjusted.
  6. :white_check_mark: I think I agree, as mentioned before maybe the cd could be adjusted.
  7. :white_check_mark: Agree, maybe bows and crossbows should be reworked entirely as burst options rather than primaries but this seems good.

Magic Balancing Responses:

  1. :white_check_mark: :x: The damage should be released but I don’t see acid cauterizing a wound any time soon, maybe in compensation the bonus could be a little lower.
  2. :x: :white_check_mark: I don’t think it should be 35% at all but it could be lower. I don’t think nerfing the damage would be the way to go, I think all cold magics should just have more interactions to catch up with heat magic interactions. Also if you actually do the calculations, within about 4 hits per 10 seconds of fighting, Acid’s base damage makes up for the longer-lasting DoT. As said, Fire’s DoT could still get a nerf because anything lower than 4 hits per 10 seconds (unless it’s 1 hit per 10 seconds, which is obvious which magic wins), Fire will deal a fair amount more damage, so maybe we could get a very slight nerf.
  3. :x: Plasma is barely more damaging than Paper with the nerfs and Paper can stack bleed, even if it couldn’t it has higher base damage and is faster.

Overall Balancing Responses:

  1. :x: Do not agree. I still think this sort of disrupts the way the game works and in all honesty you can’t stall forever with magic jump, eventually you’ll land to recharge, this also makes it literally impossible to jump any higher than 1x with magic jump. As an alternative, because even if you can’t infinitely stall running and stalling will still be annoying, magic jumps could stale (cooldown and/or effectiveness increases with repeated use) in combat.

  2. :x: There could be other ways to eliminate the infinite jumps without reducing the uniqueness of solid magic jumps, for example charging magic energy would instantly dissipate the pillars created and T-Jumping would be unavailable if it’s also really that big of an issue though I think that aspect is fine. As for with the stale changes, magic jump going stale would reduce the duration the pillars are in the air.

  3. ??:white_check_mark:?? I honestly don’t know how to feel about this but I don’t think it will be that bad.

5 Likes

Alright not trying to give my opinion on this suggestion today (because it’s late), but maaaybe use the Hide Detail feature so people don’t see a constant 25 paragraphs long essay that discourages anyone from reading it? I must sound annoying rn but I’m tryna help

2 Likes

its all good and i promise im not biased just because i helped

I just tried using it but I kept messing it up so I’m just gonna keep it as it is for now

i mean id prefer if more of the combat still gave you options on the ground. it should be a good mix of aerial and grounded. having the option to spam high jumps just lets you stall for hp, even with the magic cost theres ways to sneak in charging after a jump.

This is one of the most retarded suggestions I’ve seen.

are you saying that unironically… and did you just decide to not read it

Hey so ummm
unknown
Awesome

1 Like

Everybody’s trashing on it because of how it changes stuff.
I’m fine with these changes, even though the magics I love so damn much (Fire and Acid) are getting hit.
hell, Vetex has this shit on the Trello page for Guilds Update, he’s liking these ideas it seems

Does this also mean that destruction will actually be useful this update? Kinda pog

DUDE I sure hope so.
Good reps like me have no fuckin’ use for ANY destruction.
And yet with these ideas?
hehehe, minotaur set go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR-

DISCLAIMER
Your messages will be read just post your feedback with what you agree and what you don’t agree and please tell us what would be a good to look into.

3 Likes

Literally none of these are needed beside high jump changes.

What we actually need:
Magic end lag being reduced: forgot the fixed values Meta gave but those were good.
Damage nerf and AoE nerf for Raging Storm
Hitbox nerf for Mighty Crash
Dual Daggers being nerfed to max 100 damage per dagger (200 total)
Acid getting an impact damage nerf (same one that fire got on the storyline update)
Paper getting a damage nerf
Sunken getting an AoE nerf: less horizontal, same vertical

yo maybe i read this wrong
but what i got from this is to nerf everything

4 Likes

The first thing brought up was a weapon rework so idk why you want them nerf more if they’ll just be scaled back and people will now have to invest into them for them to be just as good as magic

1 Like

The weapon rework was planned for fighting styles update anyway. We dont need the rework until fighting styles and it would make sense for the weapons to be nerfed in aoe and damage since STR levels could probably boost the Aoe

1 Like

I’d also add a buff to Magma Magic’s bleed damage multiplier to 30% so that it could compete with Ice against bleed (since they are practically polar opposites of each other).

I also think that Poison Magic should only do 20% more against bleeding targets rather than 25%.

0.75 seconds is actually quite a long time in combat, so I think maybe you could either keep Rising Tide’s cast time the same (so that it’d be the best for immediate mobility and damage) with reduced damage OR increase it to 0.5 seconds at most.

Mighty Crash should be reworked to be more like, y’know, a mighty crash. You would be pushed in the direction you are moving when you use it, then fall and crash when the axe collides with something. This would make it unable to be effective in air (unless you happen to land a direct hit, but it would make the ability more unique aside from a larger self explosion that destroys all projectiles with less endlag. Could have an 8 second cooldown.

Bows should be nerfed by the same amount as melee weapons are. Strong bows doing base 60 damage is already pretty low.

I don’t think magic jumps should be given a cooldown unless they are Ultimate Arts. It is an inconsistency with normal spell types and is already limited by magic energy.

9 Likes

okay i think mighty crash cooldown could be 7 seconds or 5 - 10 seconds idk

anyways raging storm should clash with magic spells. Like they cancel out each other imo

anyways y’all are trashing on this suggestion when a TOTAL GAME REVAMp is announced.

Voted but hey man here's a tip

Make use of hide details! It makes the post easier to read!