Remove Power and Defense

Suggestions
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Remove Power and Defense
effort 4.8 5 quality 4.5 4 reasonability 2.5 10
1

Proposal

Completely remove the Power and Defense stat.

Instead give those benefits inherent to either your overall gear stat total, or split the total amount of gear stat types into ones that grant power, and ones that grant defense in addition their main stat

Details/background on your proposal

So in regards to the first version of it, instead of having a power and defense stat, you instead are given hp and damage bonuses depending on your overall stat total granted by other stats.
Maybe 1 Power, 2 Defense to keep a relatively fair ratio.

In the second rendition, instead a stat will grant one or the other:

So, Haste, Range, Drawback, and Size give power in addition to the stat

while Dexterity, Pierce, Resistence, and Regeneration increase defense.

Insanity and Warding don’t give anything.

Drawback instead will passively give a large power bonus with the stat.

I think some stuff has high defense and drawback, so maybe a variant that gives defense instead would also be smart.

In either case you can see your “Total power” and “Total defense” entirely seperate from your gear stats.

Reason to add/change

This will make it so players can actually diversify their stats without just playing suboptimally.

Its obvious that Power and Defense simply hold too much sway and nerfing it into the ground isn’t actually solving the problem.

Because the game is simply designed around having it. If fights take too long, and bosses are too punishing, it becomes pointless to do anything other than what makes you hit harder and tank more.

Trying to nerf Power and Defense when the game is cruelly punishing with many bosses, makes it so players will want it more, and more of it.

So if the problem is that you can’t NOT have power and defense, the best solution is to make sure you can’t NOT have power and defense.

Players will start instead leaning into the more balanced stats in a way that leans towards their builds and actually getting use out of them.

What you have is a prime opportunity where no stat has the advantage in a meta sense except for defense and power.

So EVEN the playing field and that way it will encourage experimentation.

1 Like
2

what

3

basically no more actual power and defense stats.

Instead if you have 50 Haste, you have 50 power, it all just adds up based on your gear stat totals.

so instead your being granted more power based on your stat totals, meaning players can use the other stats more and diversify their builds.

4

sounds like a decent idea but could be changed slightly (its 3 AM for me i am barely holding on rn :frowning: )

5

I feel like giving drawback power would be a bit weird, since some armour with drawback do give power, but some give a lot of defence, so maybe power and defence still exist in a sense, but only via drawback, so that way we could have armour with drawback and different stats which aren’t always power.

Still it would really help encourage players to use different stats.

6

i did suggest under it having a variant for defense, maybe with a different color or a tiny defense icon next to it.

7

so basiclly we remove the stats just to add more of said stats?

Am I supposed to have 300 power from my attack size or what :sob:

8

I’m assuming the exact numbers of Power and Defense that other stats would give would need to be changed from what the suggestion says. Presumably lowering how much power things give, though I’m not sure how much. Anything that’s less than 1 Power per point of power-giving stat seems vaguely plausible to me.

9

i’d say make it so every 1 point of a substat, you get 3 defense, and for every 3 points of a substat, you get 1 power, to make it align with EP.

10

the exact numbers can be discussed, but generally either based on EP, or otherwise overall stat total, the goal isn’t to remove all use of power or defense, but make it so people can actually viably use other stats without sacrificing power and defense because it is so crucial.

11

Honestly, this is brilliant. This will make it so people can actually have other stats without SOLELY going into power and defense, as right now, people are just going full power builds without even considering the other stats, cause they really don’t need it.

However, I think it is something to consider on how it would be handled. How much defense per specific stat, and same for power, would need to be considered.

As for drawback, I think there could be two types of drawback: Power drawback and Defense drawback. They both are exactly what’s in the name, Power drawback gives insane power in exchange for drawback, and Defense drawback gives massive defense in exchange for drawback. If you want, one type of drawback can inhibit the other stat, which would discourage people having massive amounts of it, though I can see how that conflicts with having both power and defense.

Overall, I think this is a good idea. Vetex definitely needs to consider this in general. Also, haste and range giving more power is actually a good idea cause… well… faster = harder hitting. I do believe the stats can be denser towards power/defense depending on what it is, for example, range might be the most dense considering faster = hit harder. Size might need to be less dense cause then it could just be a straight up nuke + dealing a ton of damage. Resistance could give the most defense, followed by regeneration, considering that it makes sense towards building up endurance.

That is all for now.

2 Likes
12

my rate before mods close this suggestion

HIIIII

13

Man, stop rate bombing people without explaining. This kinda behavior, as I explained to many before you, is legit just scum of the earth. It makes suggestions less likely to be added because one guy thought it’d be funny to give them a 1-star for no reason. Either provide a reason or delete your post atp, that’s all I’m gonna say.

1 Like
14

And if bosses become more of a pain to deal with because of the removal of defense and power?

15

I could be a little slow, I dont think im still fully grasping this so make sure to correct me if i am assuming anything and its incorrect.

But basically what this proposal would do is simply reinvent the problem and we’d go back to the previous og patches, complaining about speed and everyone would only care for DPS since all stat scaling would be the same. the most dominant stat would end up being speed/haste since it would allow for the most attacks to be churned

You say this would encourage experimentation, but why on earth would ANYONE invest into size for example past this point if the damage and defense scaling is all the same on each substat

The main point of power-size builds right now is that youre as slow as a turtle but you hit hard and big… ngl this post kinda just seems like a speed upscale in disguise

But respect where its owed: nobody is taking the time to think of solutions to the power-defense crisis and you did. and honestly the framework for this isnt too bad. I believe Defense is wholeheartedly the bigger problem than Power, and the focus should be on how people have so much hp (especially w/ those godforsaken shields)

16

I’d say that some stats should be less dense than others for power and defense, like if it’s a good stat but it doesn’t make sense to make it more powerful or more defensive, it would give less power than something like range, or less defense than something like resistance. Would that help a bit?

17

Now i am wondering if the problem of the moving variable of “the most op stats” is innate to game balancing or if there is genuinely a final way to solve the AO stat problem..

if we do that, then resistance scrolls basically turn into armored scrolls.

And as of current game logic.. if you want a significant amount of power youre going to have to make somewhat decent sacrifices in other stats to afford that

So I mean… the new stat concept is worth checking out but it doesnt change much fundamentally. I think the focus should be on addressing how shields work in AO and how stats scale in general

18

My only concern with this is that dexterity demons will become nightmares but other than that this could be interesting

1 Like
19

I can’t speak much for pvp, but I actually like the tradeoffs between power/defense/other stats from a design perspective as it adds more decision making into build crafting. I think the issue is just that other stats are a bit weak for pve purposes. For example, size and range are kinda useless most of the time when fighting enemies.

20

tbh, this is never getting implemented

mostly bc that would mean to rework ap, powerful, defense scrolls and a lot of formulas