Shield Issues

Shield Issues
effort 5.0 2 quality 4.5 2 reasonability 3.666666666666667 3

Based largely on the game discussion thread by @FatWhale (just in an actual suggestion)

Essentially this is a balance suggestion, but I’ll lay the issue out front and center so its easy to understand.

Currently, shields give a defense boost to those who have them equipped, regardless of their class. This was meant to be remedied by the fact that it, in turn, offers a mobility nerf due to the heft of the shield. Sounds fine in theory, however what was unaccounted for was the Ardent enchant, which halves the weight, and as such, halves the penalty. This allows classes that, despite not having invested into weapons, gain the full reward that shields grant at essentially little to no cost. (Which is currently being abused with the new Dragonscale shield, which gives 440 defense)

There was a lot of arguments that happened in the thread about whether the shields should keep their defense or not depending on if you’re a weapon class, but I personally think they should. Afterall, it’s a shield, regardless of who is using it they should get the defensive boons. What I do want to address with this suggestion, however, is that the penalty can be circumvented. Therefore, I propose some changes, not all of them but at least one should be put in place for shields.

First potential Change

Shields are now given a scale of how much weight they have depending on your weapon investment. They’ll get a maximum of 1.5x their weight down to the base 1x that they currently have. At 0, you would obviously have the maximum 1.5x weight, logically because you wouldn’t be good with weapons so a shield would be very unwieldy to carry around. This makes it so that, even if you apply ardent, you are still getting the intended mobility penalty. The scaling would be gradual and stop at 40% of your weapon invested, so as long as you’re a hybrid you would be unaffected by the scaling. Therefore, Weapon classes do not get penalized for using a shield, but Non-Weapon classes that try to sneak by with the defensive properties get a genuine downside to having it, forcing them to be more tanky.
Pros:

  • Weapon classes are unaffected by this change and remain how they are currently
  • Non-Weapon classes can no longer bypass the weight penalty with ardent
  • Realistic and logical

Cons:

  • Ardent now becomes a requirement on shields for non-weapon classes, or else the penalty becomes too much
  • Doesn’t address the actual issue of ardent on shields
Second Potential Change

Change how Ardent works on shields. Since ardent decreases their weight at the cost of blocking power (which doesnt matter to non-weapon classes since they don’t get the blocking power boost in the first place), I think ardent should give a defense reduction rather than a blocking power reduction. This makes shields much more viable as a weapon for weapon classes rather than a no-cost defensive tool for non-weapon classes.
Pros:

  • Non-weapon classes now get reduced defense from shields if they choose to use ardent
  • If they choose a different enchant, they have to suffer the weight penalty in greater force.

Cons:

  • Technically a nerf to Weapon Class users too, disincentivizing shield use
Third Potential Change

Shields now offer no defensive boosts nor weight penalties to non-weapon classes, only giving beast defense.
Pros:

  • Weapon classes are unaffected since they’ll keep the current shield system
  • Non-weapon classes can no longer use shields defensively
  • Shields can now be used freely for vanity and beast defense, without having to worry about the features that come with it
  • Works more like pre-full release shields

Cons:

  • Doesn’t make sense (having a shield that offers no defensive benefit)
2 Likes

Doesn’t decrease the damage, decreases the blocking power. (which still doesn’t matter for non weapons users)

thanks for the clarification ill fix that

actually i just outright removed the first part because ardent decreasing the weight by only 25% makes shields more unattractive to weapon classes

this is a solid solution. glad you went with the weight scaling approach as the primary suggestion.

the ardent change is clever, making it reduce defense instead of blocking power means it actually costs something for non-weapon classes who were using it specifically to bypass the penalty.

one thing worth considering, instead of a hard 40% cutoff, the weight scaling could taper gradually as weapon investment increases rather than dropping off all at once.

so at 0% investment you get full 2x weight, at 20% you’re at 1.5x, at 40% you’re back to base. it makes the transition feel more natural and avoids edge cases where someone sitting just below the threshold gets the full penalty while someone just above it pays nothing.

yes this is what i meant, it is a gradual change not all or nothing, changed the wording so thats more clear

also added a third approach that i saw in the thread as well as formatting and all that

I want the whole weight and defence thing axed completely, it discourages using shields as a weapon or vanity and makes then super boring because of that. Keep the beast defence and blocking power though.

1 Like

One idea I had that I want to quickly pitch is that all classes now get a “shield” of sorts that takes up a slot in the inventory, now magic users can do more defensive related spells, warriors get a new weapon slot of sorts, oracles can use some relics in that slot, and berserkers can get some sort of armour on their arms that they use to cover themselves from attacks and also get some moves on it.

barrier, construct, resistance aura

nichtaplia (unfortunately thats all they have atm)

resistance focus, cant think of anything else

do not buff warrior

ye i hate having -2 armored but at least they are slighty slow with shields

this is not a warrior buff

the first and third changes dont change warrior at all, they simply nerf other classes that use shields at no cost, and the 2nd one is a universal nerf including warrior as well, and is probably the worse of the 3

1 Like

honestly i like the alternatives suggested but i feel like going back to the old system wouldn’t be the worst thing ever

i used to run a shield since i preferred the blocking power over the extra moves on my warlord but now i feel discouraged from running one due to the weight kind of fucking me over, yeah the defence is nice but it doesn’t mean much if I can’t get close to deal damage

1 Like

Am I the only one that just hates weight as a system even when running weapon builds

1 Like

it feels a bit odd considering most weapon moves are mid-close range, (from my experience at least)which would mean that you’d need to close the distance to land them

what do you mean! it totally makes sense

having this tiny shield slows you down but having a 100 pound colossal greatsword lets you move perfectly fine!

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