I don’t have to like Hecate Essence. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t complain.
If there is a game mechanic that makes me quit the game, then that’s it. I stop playing.
That just means there is nothing left that I care enough about to stick around.
At least complainers show that they care about the game.
Okay this is a little silly. Please re-read what I said, ty.
Oh, absolutely. I do know that a simple fix to how hecate essence spawns certainly doesn’t take… what? 6 months?
I don’t really care to show my qualifications to children online. And I also don’t want to dox myself either
I agree. I picked poison initially because it sounded cool. Turns out I didn’t like how poison played, just wasn’t my thing. Changed to glass and I think its alright.
I agree. However, I do feel like balance is still important to pursue, for all classes.
Writing fiction is very different to making games. Fiction has a lot of interpretation, and you can find beauty in almost any story, no matter how depraved it is. When we are talking about game design, however, we are speaking much, much more technically. We start looking at how some choices are objectively better than others, and how prioritising those objectively better decisions over the desires of the self can be much more beneficial to everyone in the long-run.
I never said I wanted food on a silver platter, btw. Good game design should simply be the status quo, and so all I asked for was food that at least had substance
I agree. I am forwarding solutions, and I am also looking to have a mature discussion. You have yet to do either of these
I tell this to everyone, this is simply the first time I have said it here. You have been incredibly disingenuous with your arguments, blowing things out of proportion and not taking time to understand the message of what I was saying. You do not seem very mature, and I mean this in the nicest way possible (like an observation of sorts).
Also, this is because I just didn’t think they were relevant to what I was saying
i have in fact, re read it and as far as i could tell, the suggestion wasnt made by you
sorry for being nitpicky
ok then, do it
while i fail to see how one can blackmail you using your (possible) experience in game design and coding, i understand
maybe you were using it wrong, but regardless, good for you
thats what the balance team does, dont blame it on vetex though
but they both require creativity, making a game is more complicated sure, but execution is key
you can find beauty in games, if its not there, theres still a chance it got potential
for example
there is this game i play that combines tower defense with dungeon crawler, now it has been widely abandoned, the enemy scaling is going through the roof and the income generator tower that you find in every td game is overpowered, paying itself off in just 2 waves
id say the game is pretty trash, but it has alot of potential if its tweaked correctly
same can be said for arcane odyssey
it was an analogy 
even then, you might not say that, but the people bitching about hectates rarity sure are
i dont need to forward solutions, i never complained about hectate, i simply replied to the comments about hectate
im trying to have a mature discussion, but okay, youre right
i should start being more mature, apologies
In which case, I didn’t see that. I typically don’t get myself into drama and as such I’m not aware of that, sorry.
Upon reflecting, I have to agree. Nitpicking about things unrelated to the topic is just something I do. I’m sorry, and I hope you can explain it more clearly next time.
Ignorance is not a good justification for just leaving them out.
Now lemme go and reply to someone else, I don’t feel like making a second reply.
First off, your username does not give me a good impression.
Anyways-
That’s because everyone was complaining about a magic reset. You weren’t supposed to have it in the first place so fine, start working to earn that hectate.
You’re just wording yourself differently. This argument is fundamentally the same as that of above.
Wrong game bud? You’re mixing it up with Blox Fruits.
Also, if you think you can do it so much better than Vetex, do it yourself. Make a game.
The only problem there is right now is you. Gallery is at the very least not a rage baiter and supports their arguments with evidence. You on the other hand make baseless claims.
Oh people complained alright, they complained about a feature that wasn’t supposed to be given to them in the first place so early in the game.
They bit the hand that fed them, Vetex had every right to just say: “Oh, you’re complaining? Okay, I’ll remove it if you don’t like it.” and remove Hectate Essence from the game.
He didn’t, he cares for the community, but people like you blind the rest into not seeing that care.
This means that Hectate Essence has in fact, affected you.
Then stop playing. Why are you still here?
Ruining our debate? Do you think that just because you can’t enjoy the game, that others can’t as well? Are you jealous? Envious? It’s okay, we won’t be mad if you apologize. After all, a game is made to be enjoyed together.
Not if it means having the developer at their fingers like a puppet. If this is your way of thinking, there is no changing you. You’re cruel.
Developers are human, they don’t exist to serve their community, but to live and laugh alongside them.
On unrelated note, this means that you have totally no regard for those that don’t complain and actually enjoy the content.
I do play this game? I haven’t quit yet? Sorry?
Yes, my username gives me a bad impression. That’s kind of the point.
Just because I support people who complain doesn’t mean I dislike people who don’t?
I’m just saying that people who think finding Hecate Essence is a bad time is fine to say. It just shows Vetex wants people who try to find it to have a bad time. The reason I called it a "game design philosophy " thing was because it shows to me Vetex cares more about the “intended experience” as opposed to “fun.” (I still do have fun, I just complain.)
Dirt on characters? Designed for the sake of itself.
Pirate ships only giving good loot when sunk on ship? Punishes people who don’t know.
Stuff like this shows to me Vetex wants the game to be played in a specific way. This, to me, implies that one day, he may make the intended experience no longer what I enjoy, and thus I’ll quit. (THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. I simply disagree with Vetex. I’ll still enjoy the game though.)
I fear the day when the game doesn’t live up to its potential. Not fear of the day it doesn’t suit me.
When it comes to developers :
I don’t think they should take anything from anyone. I’m under the impression that polls for updates are inherently flawed as well.
There is a difference between “I dislike how this mechanic works” and “you suck at making a game”.
Its their choice to take criticism or not. I hate haters who love to hate. I love those who do detailed and balanced analysis anyway, even if they have problems with games.
If the goal is to make an enjoyable experience, then naturally they’d turn to the people playing the game and talking about what they enjoy or don’t enjoy. (Because we all know that the things well done don’t get praised enough, but one sore spot makes everyone go up in flames.)
The edit read “ I also think this is a bit of a silly thing to say, too. Even if I didn’t have a solution myself, I would still have a valid point. You don’t need to be a carpenter to see that a giant wooden spike in the middle of a chair is a problem.”
Lowkey I feel like you’re just arguing for the sake of this atp
I’m not a dev for AO
It’s more work at a local studio + degree shit, and I prefer to keep my online life as online as possible, far away from personal life.
I just had a different play style. Just not for me.
Vetex vetoed the ‘Hecate Essence Buff’ that simply increased the spawnrate. Vetex chooses to act against the balancing team whenever he feels like it. While I do think that the balance team is responsible for balance, I feel like Vetex should also be held responsible to make sure the balance is actually being implemented in an unbiased, logical way.
This is literally my point
This is also my point. We are literally saying the same thing. This is why we talk about game design, and why we emphasise the importance of good game design above all else. Good Games are only good because they get designed objectively well.
So you aren’t even arguing against me, you are arguing against another person but directing those arguments towards me?? I have a hard time understanding tone, so I am not sure if you’re joking or trolling or what.
Sure (honest).
Its okay.
I have a habit of being a bit vague in things that I say, mainly because I understand myself so much that I speak only in terms I understand. I guess it is why I have trouble talking to people about these things
Genuinely I just didn’t think they were worth replying to, because it was as if the arguments were directed to an almost imaginary person. Perhaps being more clear in the future would be a better way to go. I won’t be making another reply to this either, so I thank you, for allowing me to learn something new. We both learned here, which is good.
Oh yeah: I am studying how to make a game actually though. It is hard.
And I would prefer good criticism for whatever I make. Because that’s how I improve.
Actually, fair.
Frankly I shouldn’t have said anything in the first place but now I gotta go pick up the pieces my stuff.
Thanks past me.
To prevent people from hopping on their ships and massacering every pirate for free loot.
Hopefully when the update comes out where you have to get a ship below a certain durability before you can board, this gets removed.
Apologies for assuming the wrong thing.
‘Oh yeah I’m not homophobic but men shouldn’t date eachother.’
Feels like you’re pretty much saying that. (If you’re stupid and don’t understand, its an anology.)
Because they weren’t supposed to have it in the first place.
Because that’s… how it goes in real life?
This, I agree. It serves zero purpose, but it isn’t an excuse to say that the other features don’t serve purpose, either.
So? Your point being?
You’re putting an awfully lot of expectation on a game thats still in early access.
Cut him some slack. He had to sacrifice his mental wellbeing and his outside social life just to develop the game.
If so, do you have a solution?
And there is a difference between complaining, and supporting the complainers.
To me, it looks like you’re being awfully alot like a hypocrite. Not saying you are.
So what you’re saying is… Just because the devs don’t interact with their community and take feedback, that they don’t want to make an enjoyable experience?
Cause is not correlation.
Suggestions Exist for a reason. Heck, one of the suggestions actually got accepted.
I didn’t read the edit. But okay, I agree with your statement
That’s why I said “Sorry for being nitpicky”.
That is not my problem. (Nothing personal, sorry if it came off as mean.)
Also, you can at least try.
Ooh I see, I see. In which case, I won’t pressure.
Because people were never supposed to have it in the first place.
I would like to hear out his argument.
So… we’re saying the same thing, but the direction we’re trying to pull it to is different?
I never wanted to argue against you. I was going to post a statement, leave, and then hope people read it.
I can say the same for you. Maple made that original post, but you decided to direct what Maple said towards me.
And for reference, I’m not trolling. Really! I have no reason to.
Glad we could solve that.
Like you did with me, I’ll do with you. It’s fine.
Honestly, me neither. When I wrote that, I thought they were actually rage baiting.
I thank you too. It has been a pleasurable debate (Albeit extremely derailing the topic and taking up more than 4 hours of my life). Hope you read this and continue the rest of the day with a smile.
Have a great day.
1 Like
i haven’t read anything at all but it sounds cringe
Listen, I love lightning, but I’ll be darned if it’s imbuement sounds aren’t horrendously loud for no reason. Please Vetex, for the love of god, my ears are bleeding.
Fair enough? Allow me to rephrase myself then.
I like the option to complain and sometimes people do. If this means I now contradict myself, then so be it. People always complain and I think that’s better than scheming other’s downfalls or being passive aggressive. I would rather someone blow hot air than do anything bad.
I still dislike it but this is true. This also feels like it’d be expected for people to complain about this implementation, however. I just think of the people as those who are blowing hot air but still, begrudgingly, go out anyway.
Hmmm. How should I explain this…
I dislike the philosophy of “you should suffer for this.” HOWEVER, I will acknowledge that this could also be turned around into “here is the reward for something that is torture: something you weren’t intended to do.”
I just find that other games (Specifically other games because reality is mid anyway) have more accessible options or aren’t nearly as long-term of an investment as AO is. Reality is not kind to anyone and that is why I should be kind to more people. (I may sound like I am contradicting myself, but I will explain in another paragraph)
Fair enough. No complaints.
Early Access is the perfect time for strong feedback because once Full Release hits, major changes will be unavailable. (I’ve already failed in this regard since Early Access is finished anyway. )
I am giving him slack? What makes you think I’m not? I think his game is excellent, but I’m not expecting perfection. I think this game is good for what it is.
Are you asking me to say the game is better than it is? I, personally, would prefer honest feedback. What are you trying to get me to do by telling me this? Not give honest feedback?
My kindness is the honest feedback… Is this not kind? do you wish for me to remain silent then? Or is my way of speaking too belligerent? Am I supposed to say things more nicely then? How do I go about this?
Well, I’m a little analytical. I would personally suggest studying complaints to find common points of contention. I cannot trust people to have an accurate gauge of the game like how I cannot expect the developer to know how the average person would play the game.
This would partially be based on what I can infer the population ants and compare it to the game experience I’d like to curate. If a good update changes something or a core component is considered for change, then I poll is useful for data.
The final say goes to the developer. That is the burden. Even if it means facing the entire playerbase in the process. It’s up to me to respect the decision and choose if I still like the game because of it.
Polls are merely one component of everything. That’s why more than one source of feedback is inherently necessary.
You asked if I have a solution? I do not. My solution is to simply gauge every possible variable I can.
Can you tell me a perfect solution? And here’s the kicker: I know everything is flawed. There will never be a perfect solution. There is simply embracing flaws to make them strengths.
I support complainers because of what happens. Those with genuine criticism get shut down as complainers. It’s then my job as one to stand up for those who get shut down.
I will also oppose those with no constructive anything. Even something as small as “I had a bad time with this” is far more constructive than “I hate this game.”
As such, I find it imperative to be one myself if I want to defend those I deem worthy. Even if it means getting mixed up with those I hate the most.
Can you explain to me how? I’m not fully understanding.
I will clarify this paragraph I wrote: I feel the devs have the strongest say and they cannot fold to anyone. I also know how demoralizing it is to see their creation be told is awful.
What I want to defend are those who have a love of the game to be able to go into detail about what makes it good and bad. They appear to be haters for saying anything negative.
Some people who blow hot air (“this game is hard” or something) are fine with me. We all have our moments. Most of the time they’ll stop playing if they don’t care enough. Or maybe they’ll just go back to playing the game and having fun.
I dislike haters who only hate for itself. Those who go out of their way to say a game is garbage for no other reason than it brings them joy.
All three of these are “complainers” and I hate some of them and like others. Why is this hypocritical? I’m having trouble understanding.
Not exactly. I think the dev themself have the best solutions at all times. It is their game after all. Rather, I believe they would analyze why someone thinks something to pinpoint what’s going wrong. However, Vetex is one man, I can’t exactly hold him accountable for failing to accommodate his massive playerbase.
Rather, I feel the loudest complaints help pinpoint the major and most pressing issues. it is Vetex’s discretion to deal with these as well. Because no one else can, since they don’t have the vision of what the game should be.
If you don’t know what the complaints are, you simply don’t know a problem exists.
I am cringe, Thank you
This has been a helpful experience in helping me formulate my stance on this matter, I appreciate it.
And your time, for that matter.
I said ‘it could’
That was my explanation, I couldn’t find the words for it my bad.
Strong feedback ≠ harassing a developer
Uhh siding with the complainers?
Don’t get me wrong, some complains are always expected
The problem is when it turns into harrasment
No, I’m asking you to be aware that the game is still in early access. Poorly executed things is to be expected
No comment other than
Guilt tripping
But one is always more than 0.
In which case your argument falls apart.
If I had one, I wouldn’t be asking you, now would I?
You stand up for harrasers, those that whine and cause drama when things don’t go their way.
Don’t get me wrong, I too play devil’s advocate sometimes. But it’s important to note that sometimes you’re standing up for the wrong type of people, even though the complaint itself is perfectly reasonable.
You say you hate haters, that love to hate.
In my eyes, you’ve been hating on the game since that first paragraph.
You loved to hate on the haters.
Which is hypocrite-like behavior.
^that was my reasoning.
Oh I know what complaints are alright, in fact, I’ve lived my whole life dealing with complaints.
Ya’ll derailing this post. Hecate bad the end; I’m happy we can at least try to reset our magic now, the method still sucks ass.
Anyways, strength poll wheN?
1 Like