AO's Predatory Designs

[StockSounds]

I’ll give it to ya for sunkens, but is it predatory to have gameplay?

[Bingy]

real life is predatory cuz you have to work to get money

[IJustComplain]

I just scrolled to the bottom, I will read later. However:

I agree, the game is a massive time sink for the sake of being a massive time sink.

Not for the sake of being a good game.

Is it predatory? Ehh… I save that for Pay to Win. Is this game a massive jerk? YES. Instead of making every part of the game an engaging experience it adds features which don’t contribute gameplay/leaves feature which are mostly just luck, or a time sink (luck mechanics do also tend to be a time sink anyway).

I agree with you, even if I wouldn’t define it as predatory.

I shall be back with a more detailed response later once I read all you’s posts.

Edit: Darn, it got closed. HOWEVER:

@TheoreticalExistence

I have fun with most of the mechanics in AO, I don’t dislike essence because it is luck based, I dislike it because it was deliberately made to not be fun.

One major thing that I do not like is that AO forces certain things to happen. Want interesting builds? You’re often forced to engage with treasure chest loot tables. Thank goodness boss drops exist.

@Mr_hyperspace

Can we ban yrni0 from talking about game design i bet i could say sailing is predatory and he’d unironically agree

I do actually have a fair amount of complains about sailing. It’s far too un-engaging. If there were, for example, ways to hail other ships (traders/merchants) so you can get close to them, more interesting ways to find out routes of traders and pirates, you could plan around them more or even making pirates more dangerous to encourage thoughtful sailing, that’d be cool. Mostly in the Bronze Sea, taking out my map and then not playing the game while my ship sails is boring and a time sink. I’d rather have slightly annoying gameplay trying to navigate the seas and other things in the sea than no gameplay at all. (I like lost cargo and castaways for example.)

@Volcanic

I haven’t watched the video but I garuntee you have misunderstood what ever points he made in the video cuz basically none of your points were predatory

The link didn’t even lead to a video…

@fartman1314

this should only appear if you meet the levee requirement for a quest

There is a popup that appears that says “quests on winterveil are now available” unless I misremembered. This only occurs once you have the required level.

@beometric221

This is legitimately so true and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. Don’t listen to the haters bro keep cooking!!

You make me really sad, did you know that?

@wheatwhole

game design is predatory
any rng is predatory

@wheatwhole

you know this Reddit post and maybe ur post, it really PISSES ME OFF as a game developer myself

I have to comment on this. Game design is really hard. I know, I know. But the problem is execution of mechanics. What does the execution add to a player’s experience to a game? Trying to get items in AO is frankly difficult because you are forced to go through rng. I don’t mind grind, but it has to be directional. Levels in rpgs are often counted by exp, an indication of getting closer to a new level. I, fairly often, overlevel in rpgs. I love to explore worlds and rpgs expect me to not do as much as I do, so I overlevel. I would PREFER more grind, but if it was focused. Can I explore an island? do I get rewarded for it? Or is the reward seeing what the island has? However, be a little too generous with exp, you get “this game too easy.” too harsh, “This game has too much grind.” Video games are hard to make, I know. No one game is perfect. But just because it’s hard, does it mean you shouldn’t care about if a game is good or not? Writing is hard, should I only be like “well if it’s so hard, you do it?” I disagree with that.

@nilexrl

Yrni, by your logic, MMO’s and RPG’s as a whole are predatory by just existing.

MMOs tend to be predatory, yes actually. But some games compensate by having the process be enjoyable or being well paced. RPG’s can be grindy but they will constantly reward me or have new areas to explore which means I can grind AND do something I want AT THE SAME TIME. MMO’s sometimes have the process be the end goal and that is fine, actually. But AO’s processes are sometimes unfun. That’s my problem.

@TheoreticalExistence

Yrni0, if I had to find a game with none of the things you said are predatory or any RNG mechanics whatsoever and that game still be interesting I’d have to find a game that has:
1: No open world
2: No loot progression system (random loot is predatory)
3: No trading system (players will prey on you and you’d need a loot system for this to work)
4: No multiplayer (outside of a select few genres)
5: No random encounters (random = predatory)
6: No random chance whatsoever in any form.

1. An open world is predatory if it does nothing but make travel time longer. Is there a story being told in the world? do landmarks have something to tell? what is the world doing? If it is an open field with a whole lot of nothing, that is just a pointless time-sink.
2. Excess rng is bad. however, I will admit, some rougelites do it well. The problem with AO is how the rng is presented. Boss drops are, fine. My problems lies with items and stuff. Like, if certain chests on certain islands had modified loot tables I’d be far happier than I am now.
3. Yes and no, but I don’t trade. No further comment.
4. Oof
5. Not really, but then again, I never agreed with Yrni0 about the game being predatory, I found it a time-sink. I love a good Pokemon game, for example. RNG can enhance gameplay. Does AO rng enhance gameplay? no, I just do the same thing over and over again. At least treasure charts are somewhat engaging.
6. above.

@crimis_cringle

according to your handy reddit post, working for something in a video game is predatory

same with updating the game

Yes and no. It depends on the purpose of the update. Rebalancing, for example, is only predatory if the purpose is to shake up the meta and not tend to the health of the meta. Its why balance is extremely precarious to balance.

… I’m tired. I would love to complain about AO specific stuff, but man, I’m exhausted. I could barely explain my points as well.

[Divanochi]

This is actually true though

Being employed is ruining my life but being unemployed would ruin my life more

[GlitchingEclipse]

This post is predatory because it’s wasting my fucking time

[Yrni0]

43 posts of people not reading through about 72 others (way less if you only count my own) </3
That’s a great way to encourage someone to edit their message and correct themselves after recognising their mistake, shitting on them even further I mean.

[SoupSnakeSal]

yrni would rather ao be a badge walk is what im hearing

[McdonaldsHiC]

It seems like you see any grinding as “predatory design” which i really disagree with

the only justification i see for calling these things predatory is the existence of premium payouts, but not everyone has premium, and at that point anything you do to keep them in-game would be considered predatory here

I say “anything” especially because dodge reflexes are called predatory, which is just plain false (it is an upgrade to your overall moveset, something that almost every game has in some regard). I’d agree having it as part of a missable quest isn’t great, but it is not predatory design

I agree alot of very nice features are locked behind gamepasses (gamepasses that i also think that are bit too expensive for what they are), thats probably the best example here though its still debateable

edit: forgot to mention it but alot of these things are just a result of the genre and setting of the game (dark sea, sailing, fishing, etc.)

Besides that I just think you really dont like the amount of grinding (in which case just say that)

tldr not everything that makes you spend more time in a game is predatory design by default

[GlitchingEclipse]

Even then with dodge reflexes they become automatically added into your kit later on now iirc

[amaranna]

You are deranged. This is what happens when bums watch a few youtube videos and think they know everything about game design. Everything you said is stupid and you have no good points. I don’t even think it is bait because of your other posts, you are actually just this stupid.

I really hope you didn’t think anyone would agree with this dumbass post my g