drip issue I count my bands w those gloves on fr 
But I wanna look cool and not some goofy clown with bigass rubber nubs
Besides glass and savant anyone got anything they find unbalanced currently not addressed(Iâm curious)
personally feel like all FS move reqs should be lowered by 30 , str hybrids not being able to get airstep is strange to me especially on juggernaut which quite literally has 0 mobility outside of crash
Alternatively i think we should just straight up treat vitality like every other stat
As of right now, even if it didnât decrease damage, it would be a pretty meh tradeoff to swap from full mage to 150 magic with just 400 extra health. The only build which would really be in any way outshined by a vitality hybrid even if vitality didnât decrease damage is warrior
Once they get spirit weapons, the hp gain will be counteracted by the use of the spirit weapons anyways, because spirit weapons (according to the trello) are planned to drain your lifeforce to deal damage to enemies.
Make vitality like every other stat, give it no reduced damage, make mono-stat and other stat hybrids just NOT able to use it, all your problems are suddenly solved with ONE change.
I think this isnât gonna apply to spirit weapons and itâs to make people not just pick up vitality for hp and then never touch spirit weapons.
Kindâve like how some conjurer get infusion and never touch magic again
?
iâm a tad bit confused here
man just said âyeah youâre bannedâ like ???
I think the issue with that is we just donât know if they will have an imbue, and if half of the vitality hybridâs kit just DOESNâT work, a pure vitality route would just be objectively better.
It already would be lower tiered magic because it has less magic stat than mage, and would have less utility and raw damage from no ultimate arts, no pulsar, no shapes, and less skills from second magic. The same would apply to other vitality hybrids too (again, warrior is unfinished so as a biproduct knight is alright compared to warrior)
Why would you play a vit hybrid if you just arenât going to use your other abilities, just play warden instead
Vit is gonna be finished when the level cap is much higher and theyâll have access to that
Also the dmg decrease isnât that severe
Yes but then the mono-stat builds will also get a new toy at higher level caps, whatâs your point
If itâs ânot that severeâ then why not just remove it, if itâs not that severe it shouldnât shake up the meta too much to remove it
Vit hybrids will have plenty to play with once spirit weapons are out and the dmg nerf isnât that severe
Itâs not to decentivize vit builds from dealing dmg, itâs to decentivize people going vit builds purely for the hp and not the actual stuff it offers(spirit weapons)
I would be down for vit to be renamed and lose the hp increase/dmg decrease altogether once spirit weapons are out
Maybe smth like faith that was previously pointed out
Youâre missing the point, if their secondary stat (magic, strength, weapons) does less damage than spirit weapons, it just wonât be worth using aside from as utility. If they get imbue, while that might help, how will KNIGHT imbue? Knight just straight up wonât use itâs weapons, because spirit weapons are better, so instead it will use spirit weapons, but if it just uses spirit weapons, now itâs just warden with half the kit because warden gets higher tier and higher level spirit weapon skills.
The point of skill points in the current game isnât to increase or decrease power, itâs to unlock specific thresholds on your build to get more abilities in combat, which vit straight up doesnât have right now. Even when it does have that, it also has the damage decrease. Players seem to forget that you have a limited number of skill points, and that putting skill points into vitality effectively LOWERS YOUR BUILDâS LEVEL because it REMOVES THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET VITAL SKILLS.
Vit currently is absolutely horrendous but Iâd wait to see if and how spirit weapons interact with magic/fs/normal weapons before coming to the conclusion itâll do nothing for them.
I absolutely agree that stat points are not to increase power and do think it would be better removing the dmg decrease along with the hp increase and make it its own build category since itâs the only one that effects raw stats for whatever reason.
Iâm pretty sure the damage decrease from Vitality was just a symptom of early tester PvP, it kinda just has no basis for being in the game even with the incentivization of the use of Spirit Weapons when they get added. Like you said itâs not insanely harsh but it still hurts, I rock full powerful sunken + powerful arcsphere + powerful defense amulet and I still donât even hit 200 w my Earth blasts (excluding boost from bleed)
As i said in a previous reply, it seems like the hp increase is there to give you a higher⌠letâs call it resource pool, for your spirit weapons. Spirit weapons again, according to the trello, are meant to drain your lifeforce to deal damage to an enemy. If they drained health to use, and didnât increase your hp with vit, they would either need to do absurd damage, or have absurd utility to see any sort of competitive advantage to using them. The hp increase is similar in concept to the energy increase investing points in the other three stats gives you.
Vitality in general has just been approached terribly from a design standpoint in this game, itâs a stat that takes away from your build instead of adding to it. You lose tiers, you lose damage, you lose stats that could reach ability thresholds if invested elsewhere, and currently you even lose energy, in exchange for gaining HP (not even an HP regen boost if these changes go through). Just inherently very poorly designed, every stat should bolster your build, not subtract from it
The increase in hp itself isnât very well thought out because itâs counterintuitive to go a tank build with vitality. Youâd get a greater hp increase ratio wise for going a glass cannon vitality build than a tank one because vit gives flat hp. If vit is supposed to be this âresource poolâ to use your weapon, then does defense from armor not literally do the same but much more? Youâd get triple the hp from armor than vit would give and about the same as what vit would give just by leveling up.
Never once in the patreon discoed chat have i heard a tester talk about a previous vitality meta when Iâve complained about vitality before, all iâve heard from them was theoretical bull like âwell if vitality wasnât reduced damage youâd just ge stat checked by vitality buildsâ, if there was a time when vitality was the meta, clearly it was before things like shapes were added, because those boosted mono-stat build viability by a lot. It may have been before the mono-stat builds were âfinishedâ for the current level, resulting in less of a opportunity cost difference when investing in vitality, so testers felt it needed to be at least temporarily nerfed.
It doesnât need that anymore, thereâs a very good reason vitality builds are at the bottom of everyoneâs tier list
Obviously itâs all just inference rn but Iâd be willing to wager that Spirit Weapon HP drain is gunna be percentage based rather than flat, so that you donât have to build full tank in order to get the most of these weapons
then again, I could see that being abused pretty heavily as itâd just make glass cannon vit builds more effective with spirit weapons than tanky vit builds with spirit weapons which just doesnât make sense
I think that the best solution would be the self-drain being percentage based, with the strength of Spirit Weapons attacks scaling depending on how much health was lost from the drain. solves the potential problem of glass cannon vit builds getting more out of their spirit weapons and makes it so that you donât have to build full tank to use them
Sorry for replying late as well, I was away.
The discussion on this continued for quite the long time while you were gone.
I made some discoveries and realizations in that time.
The primary problem with DoTâs right now, which is responsible for the change to the formula even being suggested (which affects all classes, not just magic), is very strong magics with very strong DoTâs.
These are:
Acid (Same story as magma but slightly (-0.05 base damage multiplier) weaker, smaller size, and better magic speed.)
Metal (Total multiplier nearing 1.3x when bleed procs, which is always. Easy fixes would include making its bleed threshold high, nerfing its bleed, or removing its bleed.)
And, to a lesser extent, earth. (Bleed threshold is a lot more fair here)
Next would be that the new formula makes a lot of mechanics/spells entirely irrelevant if youâre using an intensity build or poison magic.
This includes any charged spell, ultimate move, synergy (as they would only affect impact damage), spell stronger than a blast (in an ideal meta the blast is not the standard strong attack, it should be the standard average damage attack), or difficult to land spell.
This means poison is now all about finding the largest, hardest to avoid attack and then spamming it while running away. You donât need a further game plan or to be fun to play against.
My bleed and plasma synergies being entirely pointless is really disparaging.
Oh and blocking also becomes entirely pointless against intensity builds, as damage of the hit, is, again, irrelevant.
This big ol chunk of text is entirely for mages, I donât even know how it would affect weapons or strength builds. If itâs already a nerf for pure magic I canât imagine it being a buff for the other things that use damaging statusâ.
Oh and as an aside, look into how crystal interacts with ultimate moves. Apparently ultimate moves apply stackable statusâ twice per hit, which can make crystal (0.975 damage multi) apply itâs crystal shatter damage bonus multiple times for humongous bonus damage in a massive area.
Going to post this so I can get involved in the current discussion about vit without forgetting.