Diminishing Returns on Group Bounty Hunting

Diminishing Returns on Group Bounty Hunting
effort 5.0 4 quality 5.0 4 reasonability 4.75 4
Long Rant if you care

There is a problem with the leaderboards- a problem some are aware of, and that is that most of those who sit on the leaderboards got most of their renown by hunting in groups. Of course I do not say that everyone has, but there is a large number of players who when they engage in bounty hunting, hunt in groups, and this is problematic for two reasons.

  1. Due to the way combat flows, it is very, very difficult for someone to defend themselves against two hunting players. Of course there will be those who try to boast about their own skill, “Oh I can do that all the time!”, yet when we talk about the average player their chances are next to zero.

  2. Group hunting is highly abusable. If only one person in a group is hunting a target, then any kills made in defense on the accomplises win the target nothing but a bit of health. Some say this is sufficient, but there is no ‘risk’ for an accompanying hunter. They just make sure the target is low enough to be killed, and if they die, there is nothing lost.

Bounty Hunting can already be a rather bad interaction. It’s quite one sided, 90% of the time when someone is bounty hunting they are interrupting someone else who is engaged in another area of the game, as well as the hunter almost always having advantage at lower levels by surprising the target. (The combat tag did address this a bit). However, to circumvent combat tag you could just let a friend initiate the fight while you hang back, then join in after the fact. Lots of ways group hunting can be abused to crush solo players.

So here is my proposition.

For every player participating in hunting a single player, the reward for a successful hunt is halved, as is the penalty for the victim. This means at two players vs 1, the rewards are 50%. At 3 its 25% etc. etc.

Sound simple, but there are two major factors to consider that I would like discussion around this topic to focus on.

  • First is: Who counts?

  • And Second is what if the defending player has others too?

So on the first one, that means, at what point does this penalty get applied? Is it just when they are partied, or if they deal damage? What if they wait out the combat timer so it counts as a one person fight again whilst chasing?

Here’s my answer: Anytime a victim receives damage from another player (outside their party, so this cannot be abused), the penalty will stack for each player that hit them until they are out of combat and at full health again.

Second, how do we calculate ‘teams’ in this matter? If a group of 2 is being hunted by a group of 3, and everyone has at least someone elses poster, how does that calculation work in practice?

My answer: The best I can think of is that this works both ways. If a hunter has two stacks of whatever mark tracks that you are being teamed on, and the target has 2, then it equalizes, because that means there were two people on both side of the interaction, and thus, full rewards and penalty. If the hunter had 3, and the victim 2, then, apply the 50% interaction (Or some mathematical average where its 66~75%).


I expect this idea may not be so popular, so I wanted to posit it as a discussion as well as a suggestion. There are plenty of people who play solo who can just be punching bags for larger groups of players, and this should at least encourage more fair interactions.

I honestly think one of the best solutions is to simply be able to opt out of renown completely and have all actual gameplay impacting rewards from renown (deckhands) separated from renown completely.

Allowing players to pick being a criminal/hero early on and switch that around as easily as you can in the current game while giving both sides actual negatives and positives instead of essentially just being two opposing factions.

This would obliterate any rewards given to assholes interrupting casual gameplay for “free renown” and force PvP players to fight people that actually want to fight.

This harms nobody except for people who exclusively hunt people who are inexperienced with combat for free leaderboard points.

6 Likes

Personally I just think there should be 1v1s for renown

There will be Duels down the line.

i also think getting way more hp on a kill like ~75% would help with this (probably should make sure the person being attacked gets the health pack and not the hunters teammate)

I feel like bounty hunting’s renown reward should be reduced further if it’s a team job, but other than that, this suggestion is great.

Personally, I feel like the renown should be off the table if it’s done by a team of people, but that’s probably because I don’t like getting teamed and hate teaming with other players myself (and because any time I win against multiple people is a massive fluke at best).

I think the renown system is the way it is because it will work better for the game that ao will be in the future, we are playing only the tip of the iceberg of what this game will be. It seems flawed at hindsight but when u think about how clans and factions will be fighting over territories all the time, taking away group bounty hunting doesn’t make sense for the future of the game.

Group vs group is fine, and that is why I suggested aspects to maintain that. But Renown is not clans. It is a ‘leaderboard’. Clan infamy is for the fame of a group- renown is for the individual, so a group should not benefit nor harm an individuals standing as much as it does.

Also consider, that a solo player trying to reach the leaderboards is immediately at a disadvantage due to nature of group hunting. If JimmyThePokemanMaster, a new player to AO dreams of being on the leaderboard, and gains enough skill to do so, he’ll still struggle to actually fight people ON the leaderboard as they are usually hunting with friends.

Duels can solve this, but thats a new FEATURE, whereas this is an easy solution to implement now, rather than later.

3 Likes

Common Crimsonpants suggestion W

We’re making changes to combat group hunting, check balance document

Making a whole system for calculating teams and such isn’t needed and is way too complicated

I keep up with the document, and I do not partake in balance discord due to its incredible clutter. The only thing on the document that addresses my problem is the deletion of all bounty posters from everyone’s inventories to stem group ‘farming’ (Something I recommended before my departure from the server). Aside from that, nothing on the current document addresses what is a very fundamental problem with leaderboard and hunting; which is that hunting in groups is more renown-effective than actually fighting someone one on one.

Group hunting on solo players needs to be tempered down. You shouldn’t be punished for being jumped by multiple people in a fundamentally impossible to win scenario.

ye ur right

jimmy desererves better

Great idea but could be problematic for people doing 2v2s or battles that have more than just 1 person for renown @Crimsonpants

it’d be easy to pretend it’s a 2v2 if you had a team of 3 guys, and one of them did a weak attack against the other 2. Leaderboard players need teams for protection because people constantly come to kill them. It’s not that team hunting is more efficient effort-wise

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