Grave/digger missed the point

Off Topic
1

i’m so annoyed that everyone keeps glazing this game and thinking it’s peak roblox. it’s not. rant intended only for people who played the game, you won’t get it otherwise, unless if you ask for specific context about my points and i can try and pull that up for you

the dev missed the point, the community missed the point, and the game itself missed what made it good. it unfortunately suffers from the same problem RWBY or rainbow six siege has: it started off good. it could have stayed good. it frequently threatens to be good. but the creators just drop the ball every time and we’re left with utter dogshit.

EXHIBIT A: QUESTIONABLE WRITING

It was supposed to be an anti-war game where both sides are locked into a pointless struggle. You know what red writes next for the lore? The golden empire always keeps winning. Remember when the golden empire was set up to be good at combat but bad at logistics
meanwhile the kings are inexperienced with tactics but know how to keep their men fed and happy
and in turn they’re much more stealthy in combat instead of taking the empire head-on. this sets them up to be sneaky, guerilla soldiers going up against a more traditional, old-fashioned army. the queen has the manpower, but not enough resources to keep all of them fed or equipped the right way. meanwhile the nations have less experienced soldiers to spare, but in turn they can equip each individual better

scrap all of that. now the kings are bumbling fools who can’t do anything right and the queen is just naturally good at everything. why? who knows? red probably self-inserts as the Queen

adjucator lore: why in the FUCK would the royal nations try and set up a peaceful deal with the golden empire, instead of, idk, ambushing the empire? and instead the golden empire ambushes them and loses absolutely nothing. does red forget any of the lore written down? why would the side that invented the Jaeger corps (the group that specializes in torture, traps, and stealth) go for a clean deal??? what WOULD have made more sense is both sides COULD have walked away with what they wanted, but they opened fire on each other and left no survivors on either side

hellion lore: why would the nations use the weapon of the enemy in the propaganda film?
what was red trying to cook???
the hellion was designed for the nation, but in the propaganda film it’s used by the empire??
would they not be repulsed by using the shotgun?
why wouldn’t the propaganda film be about the nation using a new shotgun to effortlessly sweep the empire soldiers? does red not understand what propaganda means? just because she lampshades the irony doesn’t make the writing any less stupid

snake eyes lore: One of the golden empire prisoners gets to keep their cross, and eventually uses that cross as a shiv to stage an escape
WHY IS IT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND
WHY IS THE ROYAL NATION LETTING THEM KEEP THEIR RELIGION
WOULDN’T YOU BE TRYING TO DISSUADE THEM FROM KEEPING THEIR RELIGION???
A SIMPLE FIX: HAVE A NATION PRISONER BE FORCED TO ACCEPT GOD
BUT INSTEAD THEY SNUB THE RELIGION AND USE THE CROSS IN A “HERETIC” WAY
with how many Ws the golden empire gets, at this point just stop trying to hide how it’s an equal war and turn it into a COD game where it’s “glorious protagonists golden empire sweep the idiotic royal nations” (see later: exhibit C)

EXHIBIT B: even the gameplay missed the point
anyone remember when the objectives used to be completely barren, like literal wooden baseplates?
yeah this was fucking amazing because you can’t just sit on point
people will snipe tf out of you from the tunnels, so it’s tunnel based combat
is your enemy taking cover behind rocks?
FUCKING MINE THEIR COVER, TUNNEL STRAIGHT TO THEIR ASS
it was chaotic, fun, and dynamic. half the time you weren’t even fighting on the objective, you were controlling the tunnels around it since staying out in the open was a death sentence
you could have really long tunnel sightlines where snipers prevailed, or twisty turning paths and hide with a shotgun

rook also had a perfect spot in the gameplay. since there’s no cover on the objective, rook can slam down some barricades and cover teammates who are currently capturing the point. the volk scoped rifle, similarly, excelled in sniping at people who are sitting on point but was clunky to use in CQC-tunnel combat

and then red chooses to add pre-made buildings on the objective for a shitty mini rainbow six siege map. which can’t be destroyed, at all.

now rooks are so useless the dev had to add a third mining bomb to their toolset
which is like a grenade launcher that only works on blowing up rocks in the tunnels
but that was also useless because NOBODY IS IN THE TUNNELS
THEY’RE ALL ON THE OBJECTIVE WHICH HAS PRE-MADE COVER, NOW VOLK CAN’T EVEN SNIPE BECAUSE THE WHOLE OBJECTIVE IS AN INDESTRUCTIBLE HOUSE

exhibit C: the community. oh god the community

i really don’t want to talk about this. it’s no surprise that red’s fanbase is… unpleasant. decaying winter was a cesspool of toxic players, and grave/digger is no different. literally any small criticism or complaint (for example, the dev’s extremely arbitrary change to just change the text size ingame with no option to change it back) gets shouted down.

remember when i said see exhibit C earlier? the community also seemed to have missed the point about anti-war, because every single image on the official trello wiki involves the Golden Empire destroying the Royal Nations. every single perk-related image.

even the perks focused on underhanded, stealthy tactics (like silent mining or the ability to hide your light, which normally reveals your position) are given to the Golden Empire soldiers.

are you seeing the problem yet?

image
image1067×801 78.9 KB

image
image952×714 39 KB

1 Like
2

Sounds like the United Kingdoms of Protagnia, the Tribes and Khalifates of Neutralia and the Empire of Antagnia

2 Likes
3

this is pretty obvious and easy to tell, with the way the Queen is plastered on the front screen, and some details about her which line up with Sledge Queen who we know is meant to sort of be a persona of Red.

1 Like
4

Can’t wait for red to give up on this game and make another game with another self-insert

1 Like
5

roblox devs trying to make a deep dark lore for their game and not turning it into the most edgy corny stuff ever made challenge

1 Like
6

Roblox devs should try having more silly lore, it certainly worked for pilgrammed

5 Likes
7

my simulator game has the most fucked up and disorganized lore ever :sob:

1 Like
8

it is now official headcanon that a soldat private kills the queen and gets a promotion

because you can be fairly confident that’s what red is gonna do, only except an armsman kills a king instead

1 Like
9

@Gamehero14 start drama pls

1 Like
10

Nah. I’ll agree that the lore for G/D is a bit off and not the best thought-out. However, I am a fanfic writer, and that means that I get to ignore the lore whenever the hell I want, so I barely even care, lol.

Gameplay? Sure, it’s definitely a bit different. But that said, Grave/Digger’s old gameplay didn’t have much of anywhere to go. I do rather dislike how objective-centered the game is now, but the objectives themselves are pretty good, and a lot of the new additions are pretty fun to play with. Perhaps a mode that completely removes objectives would be neat—pure cavern warfare with a focus on just getting kills or something.

If I did have much to complain about, it would be about Red’s mindset. She self-deprecates too much, and I think to some extent listens to the community both too much and too little.

Anyways, response over. Now I go back to writing fanfic.

1 Like
11

Oh, one more thing:

I main Volk. I shoot people by the flipping pixels of their limbs visible between spots of cover. You absolutely can snipe with this thing. I’d highly suggest disabling the physical scope if you haven’t already.

1 Like
12

I don’t care about the story in that game, but yes I agree with the notion that it’s pretty mid. Better than most of the actual games on the platform by virtue of having non-conflicting design pillars, yes, but still pretty mid because of the lack of excellence in any of them.
As you said, most things that were added early on have now lost their point, and with gameplay rules that aren’t accessible in game despite forbidding some ways to play it (instead of making them inaccessible in the first place), it boils down to being pretty mid. Also, the game is so well balanced now that it only revolves around a few weapons and perks.

I’d much rather spend my time on Deadline considering that it’s an objectively better shooter and honestly, I don’t know how I’ve managed to play Grave/Digger for so long before.

While the lore of Lore Game is definitely not silly at all, the people inhabiting it are. Another example of it being a good thing on this accursed platform.

1 Like
13

THE G/D LORE HAS FALLEN, BILLIONS MUST DIG THEIR GRAVES

image
image534×542 42.1 KB

btw rooks arent useless they are fucking monsters, i play neo butcher mort and getting shocks kills with the bomb knockdown is so braindead

2 Likes
14

tf you mean she self-deprecates too much? if anything she’s too arrogant?

remember when everyone was complaining about how janky the melee was because it was cursor based and not hitbox based? it was so painfully unfun to have a lance skewer through an enemy, but just because your mouse wasn’t directly on them it didn’t actually do anything. she then goes “because YOU, the COMMUNITY had a massive skill issue i made hitboxes more lenient” as though she wasn’t the one making the problem. she also made it so you have to claw your hand and hold X to see objectives (WHY? what does this even serve?) and the playerbase went “it’s for immersion”. no. more clunky gameplay mechanics doesn’t mean immersion. at least give us a setting to turn it off

also i don’t actually have a source beyond “i saw it with my own eyes” so feel completely free to say what i’m saying is total bullshit, but:

she said “no grenades, smoke grenade and rook bomb are the only ones”, then proceeds to add the jesse rifle grenade. i bring it up to a dev ingame (lazarubius i think) and he goes ad verbatim

:wink:

this is less of me complaining about the grenade, i don’t really care about that part, but it shows that they’re willing to go back on their words

1 Like
15

the main point of rooks were for building barricades and shit, and mining

rook is no longer good at either because there is simply no reason to do either. no reason to build barricades since it’s so stingy with its placement (you can’t put it down in a tunnel because it’s either too narrow or not perfectly flat) and mining isn’t useful since nobody fights in the cave sections anymore

1 Like
16

i’m also a volk main, but with the new additions you might as well stick with the prince or the jesse. it’s best during the last stand phase, but that requires you to be losing in the first place

17

Ehhh… yes and no. The camera sway is definitely atrocious, and should be removed. But it’s still a good sniper. Plus, it reloads faster than Prince.

18

Yeah, fair enough. I agree here, Red did lose a bit of her vision for the game. Also, I believe you, that sounds in-character for them.

She’s both. She swings repeatedly between being an arrogant little prick who thinks her community is full of whiny babies (which, honestly, it kinda is), to thinking that because one person disliked her game, it’s just all terrible.

Someone once compared her to a tsundere in anime, and I think the comparison is befitting.

Eh, I actually disagree on this one. I actually do prefer how the UI is (mostly) at a minimum without intentionally activating it. Though yeah, perhaps a toggle would be nice.

19

It hasn’t. It simply evolved.

While yes, the current combat does have its pros and cons, you can’t deny it’s a lot more rewarding. Back then, you’d either tunnel for a minute to get to the enemy and try to flank them only to be traded or killed after getting the sneak on 1-2 people (because flanking in this game is and was inherently quite bad due to the low TTK unless you’re a lancer). Long tunnel camping wasn’t it either. Restricting everybody to not peek in open tunnels unless they want to get domed by a volk is certainly realistic but not fun (see train gamemode for attackers)

The new combat through the structures provides MUCH more variety and balance. I believe it was made this way to keep more users engaged and reward skilled players better without having to buff guns. Imagine having to camp with a volk or dig at people to get 1-2 kills each life the whole game…

Your review seems largely biased focusing on nostalgia and old metas. The new design may feel restrictive, but it broadens appeal and creates more tactical diversity where players aren’t just restricted to volk camping or tunnel flanking.

As for the lore I’ve never been quite a lore person but I can say she has a tendency to self insert a lot in some of her games… which muddles up the lore sometimes. But in terms of gameplay she’s never ruined them with her self insert.

I’ve been a pretty longtime follower of her games now and I do have a lot of sympathy for her as a solo dev. I feel like you’re unfairly framing these changes as failures rather than deliberate creative decisions made under realistic constraints (I believe she would’ve loved to make the structures destructible, but that’s something very difficult to implement in roblox without trading off a lot of performance). While yes, she has made some bad changes (for example the lore) I think she deserves recognition for balancing the game and keeping players engaged while being under limitations of solo development.

1 Like
20

that’s your opinion but ok

i can DEFINITELY deny how it’s more “rewarding” because obviously nothing is more rewarding than having the entire area around the objective irrelevant because everyone’s hunkered down inside a building

and this also doesn’t give a good reason why rook was completely invalidated