Great TGR info dump

[MrNormalBox]

Oh look its happening again (seriously why only me)

[NoBanana]

@VRUUUUUM

ok look bro, things like magic size for example necessarily have a natural plateau which they will reach unless vetex will make the game literally unplayable
[…]
three solutions to this:

• nerf the sizes in the beginning, which is obviously fucking stupid.
• decrease the rate of change, which makes the stat only useful in super late game.
• do jack shit and create a broken fucking game.

man’s not wrong here

@Vetex While you’re around, what’s your plan for the scaling of magic size (and magic speed, casting speed, etc)?
You changed it to be “not linear” in v1.1, but it seems very close to being linear - extrapolating it, we’ll be seeing at least +500% by endgame. Is that right?

[bacon_creator]

@VRUUUUUM

wiki says it

if you mean the fandom wiki then
a lot and i mean A LOT of info there is outdated or incorrect

[NoBanana]

Fandom wiki is right about that.
Also it’s not that bad these days. TGR gave it a good opportunity to catch up.

[MrNormalBox]

@NoBanana

The current scaling seems almost linear - extrapolating it, we’ll be seeing at least +500% by endgame. Is that right?

Maybe bursting should go up to 400 as 20%, then the other one should be 10% or lower (and every other stat aswell)

[NoBanana]

Thing is, Bursting and Explosive don’t give +% magic size. They give +magic size.

A single max level bursting enchantment is +100 magic size, so that’s +33% magic size, not +20%.
If vetex is measuring the enchantments at level 500 it makes sense (that’s +20%), but it seems like an odd place to measure from, and that’s not how enchantments work anyway (two burstings at level 500 would add up to +33%).

[MrNormalBox]

Oh I see what you mean alright.

[Scorpi-on]

Ignoring the arguement I have no idea about with the alt and smart people I think ima go Paladin or Warlock, Dextietry and Magic stats mainly unless strength also boost melee magic attacks which idk if it’s still planned

[Crim]

:LETSFUCKINGGOOOO: (keymarks)

[anon75060730]

Holy shit this is a lot to unpack.
Almost getting me to stop dickriding Deepwoken.

[Ultra]

ew.

[Vetex]

Why does it matter, if its an issue in 2+ years when we’re actually at endgame obviously I’ll nerf it. Don’t see why anyone would care or worry about that right now

[NoBanana]

If the scaling wasn’t supposed to be future proof, why didn’t we make it good for the present?
Dull amulets are giving like +12% improvements - even with all the nerfs a power amulet is around +20%.

Repeatedly rebalancing the scaling to be balanced at the current level cap is an option, but why do that and have an overcomplicated and opaque system for the scaling?

[Vetex]

Because who cares. I’m not gonna stress and lose sleep over the fact that scaling is gonna be busted in 2 years in my game. I can fix it when it becomes a problem, there’s zero reason to worry about it now

[Cryonical]

That’s good wisdom, sir Vetex.

[NoBanana]

I can see that this system isn’t going to stick around for 2 years - my question is why is it so garbage now?

All you did was an overcomplicated way of increasing the multiplier to 0.4% per point.
All you needed to do was increase it to 0.7% or 0.8% instead. It’s temporary anyway, there was no need to balance for level 250. That’s months, if not years away.

Fixing future problems in the future is fine, but why do we have this weird system that fails to plan for the future or fix the problems we have now?

[Vetex]

The increase in those stats isn’t linear, it uses a system that increases less the more points there are so that their effects can be visible at lower levels. I intentionally scaled it the way it is now so that they are noticable at these levels, and when the time comes to where they are a bit op, I will scale them back a bit. Would you rather have people crying about how stats are useless now, or crying about how they will be busted years in the future (like you’re doing)? The answer is easy. Again, I’m not going to bust my ass spending ages thinking of a new formula for them because they’ll be busted in the future, it’s easy to just adjust the current formula and fix it when needed. Just sounds like you’re really nitpicking at this non-issue

[Ultra]

Since we’re on the topic, what is the formula?

[Nuclearman7]

I can get why you call magic size a hassle in the future

But why magic speed? Theres literally nothing wrong with that. If youre for example a gold main who doesnt care much about investing in power or defense and instead wants faster blasts than magic speed is your go to. (Magic speed doesnt scale with levels). And please dont repeat the example of a scroller. Armour enchantments are a way better way to balance this.

[Nuclearman7]

@VRUUUUUM

Because the shit i was talking about with the plateaus applies to magic speed as well. there is a limit to how fast vetex can make projectiles before the game becomes fucking unplayable. the problem isn’t visible now (like magic size), but it will be in the future if its not handled gracefully

This is a valid point. Tho its easily fixable by for example having magic speed gear cap out and stop existing past a certain level range. I fully trust vetex to find a way to fix this.

@VRUUUUUM

in fact, now that i think of it, magic speed is a whole different issue. how do you make the amount of speed gained actually worth something across the board without either making it too broken for specific magics or basically shit for other magics?

Certain magics could have a magic speed multiplier. So say for example light gains a smaller % boost with magic speed than iron. Again vetex is smart enough to find a way to fix this if/when it becomes a problem.

@VRUUUUUM

the scroller i was talking about is the one like the others that appear when customizing a move. you know, the one that helps change the number of projectiles or the size of an AOE blast. it’s not like the concept doesn’t still exists yet.

I know all of this. Thing is this doesnt easily apply to magic speed. How the hell do you want to balance this. Give gold less power for more speed on the scroller? That makes each magic even less unique too.

Balancing them out with armours is just way better since with armours youre still changing the stats of the magic while losing power/defence or any other stat. This keeps the magic more unique too since you would have to put some effort into changing its stats

Also im in school rn so i might not respond to you that fast