If you were to make a PermaDeath game, how would you try to design it?

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Despite lacking the coding knowledge needed to make it work my brain has just been throwing ideas around in my head since yesterday, so i gotta

First things first would be a pvp toggle that is off by default so the newbies can’t just get hunted off rip (they actually get to stick around for slightly longer)
I also prob wouldn’t bother with hunger or thirst mechanics (it just becomes a tedious annoyance to constantly manage)

I’d also want to add some sort of “tracking” abilities (find those runners who jumped you just to run away)

May also add a surrender mechanic, basically allowing others to loot you in exchange for keeping your leveled character alive (only available if you are participating in pvp)
May also add like a 10-30 second window where an ally could revive you when you would have otherwise been killed

Races (could also just go with having non of them)

Instead of being rng dependent you can just choose whatever “common” one you want (better ones would require specific tasks to be completed which may then get selected in future lives)

I’d also try to have them all be varied instead of having 1 different passive compared to another

  1. Possibly a speed based build but either increased stamina usage or just a lower stamina capacity in exchange for being faster, would be designed with mobility in mind and not wanting to get hit in the first place (for the folks who hate parry based games like me, you can just dodge) may also have weakened tracking abilities since it would be harder for slower builds to actually run away in the first place, so tracking would be the least needed

  2. Something more heavy but slower, would prob have a slight health increase and have buffs for blocking (not parrying) and prob have increased stamina capacity for the slower movement. something made for actually taking the hits, could be more difficult to stagger/stun (if i even add those other mechanics cause i don’t like hit stun much at all) Would also have enhanced tracking abilities due to the slower movement

  3. basic, just the middle ground default stats without an extra penalty or buff

Rambled abt post life/permanent progression

There would also of course 100% be permanent upgrades that can be obtained after your first death, both as ways to preserve some progress from previous lives and to add things you never had in the first place in order to give an actual sense of progression even when a life is lost
(and also as mentioned earlier with the lack of rng dependance, you don’t gotta pray to get the same character type you liked when making a new character, making it feel less punishing if you died as smth ‘rare’ since you could just choose it again without needing to have good luck)

May also add smth like dojo’s or training grounds where fighting can be done without the risk of death, like a friendly spar for people who may still want pvp but not risk their character.

Think I’m done rambling for now-

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Probably have it be a roguelike/roguelite, since having random elements would help with the otherwise monotonous grind to get back to where you were at. Its also the type of permadeath game i play the most.

Id also have it off of roblox preferably steam since it doesnt take all my money and provides some tools helpful for multiplayer.

I dont think most permadeath games on roblox really do the permadeath well. Its pretty hard to do that with multiplayer games that have pvp after all, so optional multiplayer seems the best (or something like the invader system from dark souls)

id probably have the punishment for death to be not too many hours of progress, since that usually result in better experience ( games like casualties: unknown or cditdz are good examples of this).

The usual problem is that its tacked on instead of having the game be built around it so you have to keep that in mind while making everything

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Yeah that’s one of the big problems, it just becomes a time sink with no sense of actual progression towards making future runs/characters easier/stronger

If you want permadeath to be in the game, it needs to be planned from the first step or it just doesn’t fully work, and by having it actually be at the start of development instead of being stuck on at the end would allow yourself to actually get a feel from it and possible tester feedback on where you are currently falling short.

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I’m gonna put this gently: if you find yourself implementing means to avoid a central mechanic most players would consider undesirable, you should instead be putting thought into if said central mechanic befits the game at all.

Permadeath should be an intended part of the gameplay loop. Not something the player is trying to put off for as long as possible because it sucks to deal with. It also really doesn’t work at all in games with any amount of PVP, in my opinion.

Maybe a cooperative permadeath game could be interesting? Then you’d be a lot more justified in having the “other players can save you” mechanics.

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I wouldn’t make stuff focused on the pvp aspect, i’d put more focus on the pve aspect

and since pvp is hidden behind a toggle or duels/sparring, it would be entirely your choice if you went to enable it in the open world and go for that high risk/reward game play.

Most of where pvp is encouraged would be in safe zones, and prob some healer/medic npc on the sidelines watching the sparing

i do understand not wanting pvp in permadeath though, hence why it is hidden behind a toggle and (mostly) encouraged in safe environments as practice

since pve is the main focus, i’d say “ideally” teams would be at sizes of 3+ (atleast 1 person to distract enemy while other revives downed teammate)

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it’s not great if dying sucks. yeah. but the problem is that this part of permadeath is buried very deep within the design of roblox permadeath mmorpgs and makes them very addictive because it adds stakes to each encounter that simply no other game has – if you fuck this up, you lose your whole character, they literally die.

maybe not to you, or not to us, or not to anyone who isn’t hyper-competitive or an adrenaline-junkie, but for the super hardcore audience it does. those stakes mentioned earlier mean that the consequences for losing and the reward for winning is so much higher than in any other games. the atmosphere it adds, that this world is dangerous and you can’t trust anyone you meet, is also apt for the tone of a game like idk deepwoken, where everything sucks and the world is a fuck. additionally, because of the permadeath pvp aspect, any positive relationships you have feel way more valuable, because of the inherent trust involved within it.

so what am i actually saying in this post? permadeath games aren’t popular by accident. permadeath games are popular because they specifically maximize the amount of stress and stakes that each encounter has, so they feel more visceral. you need to keep that in mind when designing your game, because that’s why people play permadeath games. hence, death shouldn’t be too punishing, you should be able to come back faster than you did before, and the game should be designed with the idea in mind that players will be doing it over and over again, but you can’t want to die, and the player needs to really dread death.

and while pvp was probably thrown into rogue/deep as an afterthought by rag to make himself feel more evil, it serves a critical role in determining the atmosphere of these games and how your roblox permadeath mmo deals with pvp should play a factor into the tone of your world and how you want players to interact with each other.

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Very simple: Your goal is to reach an ending rather than survive as long as possible.
That way, you are intending to go back to having nothing again when you succeed. That way, balancing can be done more around the experience of starting again. It would also mean that deaths are simply failing your goal and having to try again rather than undoing all your progress for no real reason other than a very fragile attempt to make you play for longer.

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I’d add a ton of p2w, battlepass, gamepasses and dev spces. After that I’d design enemies to be as inconvinient as possible when if tinally comes to fight.

Can’t forget about no refunds policy :moai:

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Okay, but seriously, if I were to make one, it would probably be like Abyss World, but more cooperative, and with combat more than parkour.

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There was an undertale game I liked where everyone was placed into an arena and the first person to get to level 20 (pacifist or genocide) wins and everything was reset back to square one. It had weapons, souls, and all that cool stuff.

Mechanics

I’d do something like that but with expanded with more core gameplay mechanics, rogulite elements, and a fighting game. It’d probably end up like a Fighting game version Crypt of The Necromancer or something.

The PvE mode can be those undertale boss rush games (Or straight up an RPG). If you’re attached to your build for some reason then you can just make it in singleplayer and keep it. I’d also put a freeplay option if you just wanna PvP with no strings attached.

Also a dark RP roleplay mode with optional pvp because every undertale game needs RP’ing

Or another one can just be vampire survivors. (Easy or hard AI because I’m not a big fan of making things easy, so it’ll be like those old stick figure animations where you have to fight like 50 guys)

Races

There will be lightner and darkner races as the main race. Humans and all types of Monsters are subcategories within lightner races. And There’s the highly customizable darkners then plants I guess. Then there’s whatever the fuck the roaring knight, the goners, or the titan spawns are.

Fighting Mechanics

It’s like Virtua Fighter or Black Magic in the sense that it replicates traditional fighting game mechanics

AND THERE WILL BE NO PVP TOGGLE

Too lazy to write down specifics, but you can do a domain expansion type thing and force your opponent into a box with your soul’s specific soul mode. Then you just force them to play UTDR and hope they’re trash at the game while you barrage them with shit.

Roguelike mechanics

When the game starts there will be modifiers put on the map that indicates which AU you spawn in. Spawning in the regular AU is normal mode for example. The AU you spawn in also affects the appearance of your character, so spawning in Underfell would make the game more violence focused but also make your character look red and edgy. That’s all I came up with but I could think of other shit as well.

After that you just start finding weapons and start murdering (Or Sparing for a different type of win) for exp. That you will put into stats and skills.

When you die you go down some levels depending on your current level so it’s kind of like a race to the top

Whoever wins gets the pacifist, genocide, or neutral ending.

Repeat

You can have 3 build slots for if you wanna do the same build and have the system auto allocate your moves to.

Character Customization

This is what you spend your currency on when you win I guess.

You get to make your custom UTDR OC!!!1!1!

You get to choose their soul and appearance

Their appearance will affect their abilities and build (Being a boss monster gives you fire magic, Being a deer gives you ice, Humans have no magic, plants have the omega attacks, and so on).

I’d like to include elemental pairs for darkners into this but I don’t feel like writing a bunch of shit.

Imagine the build variance :skull: like being a boss monster and having the option between like 5 fire builds and various other sub builds :sob:

Future Content

When I need future content I can just pull whatever shit that I want from long established Canon/Fanon EZ.

Also secret boss and shadow crystal items to buff you for a price…!!!

This would be quite a fun project to do but luckily I’m not a roblox dev :face_vomiting:

Then again forcing a roblox player to learn frame data and builds will make them throw a fit.

I already know this game’s fanbase would be cancer.

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Deepwoken except pvp doesnt take lives away from your character

I will take my game design award next tuesday thank you thank you