Improved golden fish

Improved golden fish
effort 4.5 2 quality 3.5 2 reasonability 4.5 2

Suggestion - Weight worth in gold, or golden meals.

An improvement to the current fishing system.
Centered around making golden fish worth their weight in gallons, or adding so called golden meals.

Why gold fish are disappointing

The idea is that golden fish at the moment simply disapoint players, compared to their rarity. Both when it comes to selling them for gallons, and using them for cooking

The Sell Prices of Golden Fish

A golden Sculpin (which is rare in rarity) is worth 93 gallons, divide this by 4 and you get a sell price of 23 gallons.
A Tuna (which is also rare in rarity) is worth a whopping 585 gallons, divide this by 4 and you get a sell price of 146.
So simply put, rare fish can have a difference of over 5 times in sell price, even though they are both considered rare.

The Cooking Properties of Golden Fish

To whoever reads this, i don’t know what you know about the cooking system, but i would confidently see that i know most about the system and it’s functions.
When you cook fish, the amount of hunger, and the duration of its buff is based on the size of the fish. This is both in theory and practice a great idea, and also makes sense from a logical view. The bigger the fish, the larger the meal.
The problem is that golden fish are not large, and gains a much smaller multipler compared to it’s base amount, than it’s Giant counterpart, even though the golden variant is more rare.

Stat comparison for different fish
(yet to be completed, might do later)

Conclusion:
To summarize, the properties of golden fish are lackluster, and the significance of golden fish, when it comes to both selling and cooking could see a major improvement. If golden fish only became specialized in one of these properties (selling or cooking) that would be fine, but at the moment they are lackluster in both departments.

My proposed solutions

Improved Selling for Golden Fish

What if golden fish were more then just valuable fish, when they could be actual golden fish.

Golden fish could have a sell bonus, on top of their normal sell multiplier of 3x value plus 30
The sell bonus could be balanced, but for logical reasons i would suggest making it sell for its worth, just like gems. Golden fish sound valuable, so why not make them an actual valuable when it comes to selling.

Example
A golden Sculpin (which is rare in rarity) is worth 93 gallons, Sell this for 100% worth and you get a sell price of 93gallons.
A Tuna (which is also rare in rarity) is worth a whopping 585 gallons, divide this by 4 and you get a sell price of 146gallons.

As you can see in the example, the rarity of golden fish now correspond better to their counterparts. Giant fish with the same rarity would indeed sell for less, but they are better for cooking in the first place.

Improved Cooking for Golden Fish

Golden fish would have a bonus mechanism when used for cooking, based on chance, but improved upon by the cooking level of the player.

The reasoning behind the chance and not guarantee, which i know the cooking system normally supports guarantee and consistency, but this would allow good cooks that want to take risks, to go above and beyond a normal meal.

The effect would be so called golden meals which would make an even stronger and better meal then otherwise.
I’ve fought about how often, and how powerful the effect of the golden meal should be, and have some variations .

effect of golden meal
  • effect 1

The fish that contributes to the making of the golden meal, has its hunger value doubled.

Problem 1:
This would allow a lucky player to have 4 golden squids all contribute to the golden meal, making the meal 2^4 of its original effect, which is not balanced at all.
Problem 2:
If the first problem is solved by only allowing one fish to double its value, then which fish would take priority, the first inserted or the most hunger giving. The logic and therefor the simplicity of this system starts to fall apart, and practically no players would be able to understand the system anymore.

  • effect 2

The complete meal has its hunger value doubled at the very end of the calculation and only once. This makes meals more balanced, but still makes it possible to get a even more perfect meal.

Problem 1:
The effect of rare golden fish, and legendary golden fish would stay the same.

Chance of effect
  • Chance of effect 1
    The odds of getting a golden meal would be calculated additively compared to the amount of golden fish in the meal.
    The odds would also improve based on cooking level.
    0% chance at decent improving by 2% each cooking level, for a maximum of 10%

example
2 golden sculpin and 2 pumpkins at great cooking level, would give
0.04+0.04 for a total of 0.08 which equals 8% chance

  • Chance of effect 2
    The odds of getting a golden meal would be calculated multiplicatively compared to the amount of golden fish in the meal.
    The odds would also improve based on cooking level.
    0% chance at decent improving by 2% each cooking level, for a maximum of 10%

example
4 golden sculpin at excellent cooking level, would give
( 1.08*1.08)-1 for a total of 0.166 which equals almost 17% chance which is 1% higher compared to calculating additively.

Conclusion
The improved selling would allow golden fish to be to go to way of earning gallons, but still not sell for much more then other fish in their rarity.
The improved cooking would instead be more comprehensive and make cooking more engaging when using golden fish, but would be far more extensive to implement.

The downsides of both the cooking and the selling functions

The negatives of selling:

Some of the problems transfer over to this suggestions. Players would maybe misleadingly trade golden fish, without knowing their value, and golden fish would still root within a day, so hoarding them would at least not be possible.
Another problem is that vendors would not be able to buy legendary fish, since their worth would be too much, compared to their base amount.

The negatives of cooking:

The downside of the cooking system, would mostly be the time it would take to add the feature, it would hardly ever become irrelevant, even with legendary spices, since it makes the meal comprehensively better.
The explanation of the function could be introduced by a quest, or shown in hints, something like.
“How do cooks make golden meals, maybe they use golden fish.” Or
“The odds of making golden meals is based upon your cooking level, and the amount of golden fish you use.”

4 Likes

This would be a useful addition to fishing

1 Like

Thank you for the kind words

Better sell price is good, golden meals are dumb. I think they should exist, but your implementation is bad imo. I think golden fish should just give a unique buff, similar to how some seasonings give unique buffs (horizon rosemary gives fortified). The meal would still be considered golden, and probably give some hunger and duration bonuses. I’m not sure why you want to add a luck based chance for a golden meal on top of the luck based chance to get a fish in the first place, that just sounds really stupid.

The golden buff could be:

  • A minor all stats buff (kinda boring but it could work)
  • Temporary hp (hp that exceeds max hp but cannot be healed, similar to TBOI soul hearts)
  • A galleon bonus
  • X-ray for treasure chests and treasure charts
  • Better luck maybe??? Probably not for bosses though, mainly for chests and basic enemies

First of all, that just makes things complicated, cause there exsists a certain feature called mistakes, which happen if your meal gets 2 unique effects (fortitude and cursed in one meal can’t happen) and i don’t think golden meals should cause those, but they would break it if they did give a unique effect but could not cause mistakes (which i find worse)

Second you literally list two buffs (gallons) and (luck bonus) that makes it luck based anyways, so why even suggest those.

Third the minor improvement is basicly what i already want just toned down

My suggestion uses luck for 2 reasons. 1 i want golden meals to be exclusive 2 i want cooking levels to improve on the odds.
Cooking level could also just make it 100% chance at “perfect cooking level”

By making the hole meal better with golden meals you would never get something that is broken since who actually needs recovery 5 for 4+ hours and 3k hunger.

This i can see as another way of granting golden meals a buff. I am less of a fan of this combat buff, since i prefer it to be none-combat.
I will add an alternate suggestion to golden meals based on this. I would like for the golden meals to maybe grant the amount of temporary max hp, based on rarity of fish used, but not make the difference to much. Also it would only be able to grant the buff out of combat, to prevent abuse

The galleons buff just increases the amount of galleons you get from chests and killing things; probably everything other than cargo. The luck buff is RNG, but a reminder that your proposed odds for a golden meal is 0% at decent cooking level and 10% at maximum. Do you realize how insane that is? Most players don’t get out of decent, and I’m only at the second level on one of my save files. I either see players at the first level, second level rarely, or maxed out (which are usually 1 mil+ renown people). 10% at max is insane dude.

And a minor luck boost to most drops (maybe excluding boss drops) reduces luck so idk what you are on about. I heard that luck potions will come later so luck should probably be a different buff in it’s entirety. But I think I have proposed some other ideas for a golden buff that could be good.

I kind of disagree with you wanting to make golden meals more exclusive. Golden fish aren’t that bad to find, and making them rarer by adding a luck based chance for a meal while you have the rare ingredient is stupid. Making golden meals 100% at perfect is fine, but getting to perfect is just a massive grind.

A bit unrelated but I think cooking skill is flawed since it could have been a cool mechanic but it’s just grinding like anything else. Locking golden meals behind perfect cooking makes sense on paper, but it just annoys people as they go out of their way to grind out cooking skill to be able to reliably access a mechanic (nobody is going to attempt to make golden meals if it isn’t 100% or 80%).

Fair enough, I was indeed also just ranting, so i do apologies for sounding rude, which i know i did.

I do understand this, but seen from the perspective of a player that has multiple files with max cooking level, and being part of a clan about cooking, i just see this as a limitation on the player base at the moment.
And the fact that people don’t even bother to make meals, is exactly why i want it to be exclusive, I don’t want people that have never touched cooking, to suddenly make golden meals and get super efficient buffs, just cause they caught a golden fish.

Yes but this is an RPG, and it is only in early acces, it is something you can spend your time on, to get some benefits, so i don’t find it flawed. At the same time, later in the game there will be better ingredients and buffs, so more incentive to push people to actually use the system, and level their cooking level.

So i would make it 100% at perfect cooking in a perfect world, realistically i still think i would make it 30% chance per golden fish at perfect cooking level, but might just be me. and indeed make it 5% chance at decent cooking level (so increasing at 5% per cooking level). This would be much better then the 10% i initially suggested, but would still make it quite the grind.

Also as a last comment, you can legit get to perfect cooking level within 200 meals made, using the best none fish ingredients. You can also purchase a perfect cooking level kit at Raven’s shop to get from decent to perfect at a price of less then 8k gallons.
There are plenty of ways right now, and there will be even more in the future.

I don’t know what genre Arcane Odyssey is and I don’t really care. I’d rather have a good game than one that justifies useless grinding to adhere to a genre. I’m starting to have less free time and I value games that are more fun and less grinding. Some of yall RPG fans act like you have so much time and value it so little, especially others. Cooking levels might be more common as the story gets expanded on, but people have hundreds of hours already and don’t have high cooking levels so I’m not sure. It will probably stay forgotten until professions are added.

Eh… still an unecessary grind. Really my entire issue with making it luck based is that you are adding random RNG and grind to an already luck based mechanic (fishing) while also admitting that the grind is easy and meaningless since you can cheese it by making the exact same thing over and over again. I guess we can agree to disagree, because I don’t feel like continuing this discussion.

This topic was automatically closed 24 hours after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.