More Options after Landing Grabs

More Options after Landing Grabs
effort 5.0 2 quality 3.5 2 reasonability 3.5 4

Grabs are in a really weird spot right now. Most people will agree because of the inconsistent hitboxes, which isn’t much of a discussion. But the other reason they’re weird is what comes after the grab. Quite a few grabs launch the victim straight down, forcing them onto the ground and leaving the user in the air.

So, the grabs that launch the victim straight down are good because they let you combo, right?
No.

The problem with downwards knockback grabs is that the enemy is in a better position than the user is. The attacker will always end in the air, while the victim will always end on the ground. Remember, your ability to dodge in AO is balanced around whether or not you’re in the air or on the ground. Grounded players have much better movement options, but only because they have to deal with more AOE attacks. Whereas it’s harder to hit an airborne player, but it’s equally as hard for them to get out of the way of something.
You can start to see the problem here.
After waking up from the grab stun, the victim is at a MUCH better position than the attacker. While the attacker can only use another attack or block, the victim can dash out and block at the same time, giving them a surefire way of escaping any followup pressure, which the attacker has NO way of challenging because they themselves cannot dash until they touch the ground (which will usually take a full second). Or, even worse: if the victim has higher DPS than the attacker, they can force a DPS trade because the attacker can’t escape, and now the attacker is at disadvantage for landing a grab. And don’t even get me started on how hard of a time the attacker has if the victim has a katana or dual swords equipped.

We could give grabs more frame advantage for the user, but that’s going to get out of hand fast and benefit the user to an unneccesary degree. We could also limit the victim’s options after a grab, but that would feel lame and clunky to be on the receiving end of. However, the user at least needs SOME options.

the actual suggestion:

After a grab ends (any grab, so snares, rushdowns, weapon grabs, etc), the player who initiated the grab will gain a status effect called “Air Control” (name doesn’t matter). This allows the user to do any grounded movement option without having to touch the ground, so you can dash or T-jump while mid-air. This status effect goes away once you use any movement option (so you only get one dash or t-jump) or once 1 second passes (so you can’t save it for later).

Now the problem I described in the first part of this suggestion is gone. Now the attacker has the mobility to actually follow-up on their enemy and continue chasing them (or the option to escape a counterattack from the enemy), making landing a grab as rewarding as it should be without being an automatic win for the user (because you still have to guess what they’re going to do on wakeup).

[also this change actually helps all grabs, not just ones with downwards knockback, because this buff allows you to chase people after launching them horizontally or vertically with a grab]

1 Like

like it alot but most likely will not be added

T-jumping mid-air doesnt make much sense and wouldnt really be that useful since you would still have to hold T to properly jump and by the time you release the key your character would probably have already lost a lot of height

so instead it could make so any leap spell/technique could reset alongside the air movement options

4 Likes

I don’t like this because it sounds like you just want to be able to land 700 damage cutscene combos on people because you pressed e when they used an attack

pretty reasonable, however you can just use mobility moves afterwards like spiraling fury, leap, crash to get out

3 Likes

for ppl that go weapon builds they also have a lot of moves that both serve as a defensive and offensive option, like greatsword or great axe

Honestly I like it, the fact that the initiator is put into a disadvantage after landing a grab is just a wack concept in general

But the movement option mid-air should be considerably worse than a grounded movement so the attacker doesn’t get a complete get-out-of-jail free card, rather still ending up somewhere near

Dash/leap distances initiated during this “air control” phase should have around half of the effective range imo

smash bros

Well, I don’t see the point in high jumping while in the air, but having aerial control after a grab would be nice. It could lead to more combos AND make dodging less obnoxious. Though I think you could have this “Air Control” when it comes to magic and such. If you have something like wind, I think you should be able to move around more freely in the air as well. Just a thought.

As one of the “few” rapier users this sounds like a very good change considering that after the grab ends we are highly vunerable to eating 100+ damage simply because we have a disadvantage compared to the opponent

rapier is not weak at all

Especially with conjuror, some may say conjuror is trash but it can still be good with a decent conjuror.

I never said it is weak, I simply was agreeing with the suggested changes to grabs made by Versen. I do apologize if my bias towards rapiers made it sound like only rapiers are at a disadvantage after grabs.

Also I need to know whoever said conjurer is trash, thats the biggest cap I’ve seen about this game yet

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