Player Jail Times Should Be Scrapped As A Mechanic

[Perf]

370 replies on a suggestion with 10 votes jesus christ

[TheoreticalExistence]

I never expected the prison system to get defended this hard.
I thought everybody universally hated it.

[Perf]

i like it, but i liked it more in wom when u had a window and a nice view

[Gelid_Monkeys]

while it’s reasonable to dislike the prison system, i disagree with removing it. here’s why:

1. the jail system is needed to regulate the frequency of random pvp and other types of behavior that might be considered disruptive, without implementing artificial “fixes” or functionally removing them. While these things are part of the game and shouldn’t be erased from it, deleting the main punishment for them is going to make them more beneficial than ever.

2. the jail system can help balance both sides of reputation. while things currently lean in the favor of good reps, this could be easily fixed by adding options for bad reps to access services like shipwrights and alchemists more easily.

3. the jail system adds more depth to the game and creates more potential interactions. Combat between differently aligned individuals would lose a lot of its consequences and aftereffects if it was removed, and stopping/protecting executions would be mostly npc-based, which imo is less fun.

4. the game would be less immersive without jail. while this doesn’t matter to a part of the playerbase, you’ll be surprised how much immersion impacts enjoyment for a lot of people, it’s part of why people tend to like games with things like rich stories, fleshed out worlds, or good graphics. one of the things that make AO a good RPG is how immersive it is.

[TheoreticalExistence]

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system is needed to regulate the frequency of random pvp and other types of behavior that might be considered disruptive, without implementing artificial “fixes” or functionally removing them. While these things are part of the game and shouldn’t be erased from it, deleting the main punishment for them is going to make them more beneficial than ever.

Tell me you’ve never played negative rep without telling me you’ve never played negative rep.
Essentially temp banning players is NOT the solution for this.

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system can help balance both sides of reputation. while things currently lean in the favor of good reps, this could be easily fixed by adding options for bad reps to access services like shipwrights and alchemists more easily.

Tell me one redeeming factor of locking players in a time out box for 10 minutes on every death.
(or any amount of time)

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system adds more depth to the game and creates more potential interactions. Combat between differently aligned individuals would lose a lot of its consequences and aftereffects if it was removed, and stopping/protecting executions would be mostly npc-based, which imo is less fun.

Tell me how exactly it is an interactive and fun mechanic to literally prevent players from playing the game.

@Gelid_Monkeys

the game would be less immersive without jail.

The game would be more immersive if jail lasted for real world years, wouldn’t it?
Surely that’s the right course of action here, immersion and realism over gameplay.

Fuck immersion if THIS is the price.

[Tr0xic]

Im gonna reply to this quickly because I should probably be doing something else right now, srry if my response is low-effort

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system is needed to regulate the frequency of random pvp and other types of behavior that might be considered disruptive, without implementing artificial “fixes” or functionally removing them. While these things are part of the game and shouldn’t be erased from it, deleting the main punishment for them is going to make them more beneficial than ever.

why are heros allowed to randomly pvp, and you can do this in other ways

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system can help balance both sides of reputation. while things currently lean in the favor of good reps, this could be easily fixed by adding options for bad reps to access services like shipwrights and alchemists more easily.

idk what you are on, bad reps barely have any benefits and jail time doesnt balance anything. stuff leans HEAVILY in favor of good reps and jail time leans heavily AGAINST bad reps. you are basically suggesting giving bad reps basic qol that good reps already* have access to

*changed a word to something that i think is better

@Gelid_Monkeys

the jail system adds more depth to the game and creates more potential interactions. Combat between differently aligned individuals would lose a lot of its consequences and aftereffects if it was removed, and stopping/protecting executions would be mostly npc-based, which imo is less fun.

giving one player a disgustingly multiplied punishment for losing a fight isnt more depth. and bad reps dont have any advantages in pvp that good reps dont already have. idk what you are on

@Gelid_Monkeys

the game would be less immersive without jail. while this doesn’t matter to a part of the playerbase, you’ll be surprised how much immersion impacts enjoyment for a lot of people, it’s part of why people tend to like games with things like rich stories, fleshed out worlds, or good graphics. one of the things that make AO a good RPG is how immersive it is.

ok im not gonna write this one off immediately, theoreticalexistence might because theyve seen this alot and are probably quite pissed with defending his post for like 3 days and hearing the exact same arguments that theyve felled many times over. i think you can make things immersive in a way similar to jail time without making it a shit experience for another player

[TheoreticalExistence]

@Tr0xic

theoreticalexistence might because theyve seen this alot and are probably quite pissed with defending his post for like 3 days

pissed? no.
confused? very.

[Gelid_Monkeys]

@TheoreticalExistence

Tell me you’ve never played negative rep without telling me you’ve never played negative rep.
Essentially temp banning players is NOT the solution for this.

…i literally have? not too sure what to tell you beyond that, but talking to you seems very unappealing if you’re just going to insult everyone who explains their point.

@TheoreticalExistence

Tell me one redeeming factor of locking players in a time out box for 10 minutes.

i did, it helps balance both sides of reputation and prevents the game from being in a constant state of chaos.

@TheoreticalExistence

Tell me how exactly it is an interactive and fun mechanic to literally prevent players from playing the game.

please reread what i typed, i explained it there. the entire dynamic of stopping or protecting executions would be greatly dumbed down if it was npc-only, and the game would be much more chaotic and harder for the average person to progress.

@TheoreticalExistence

The game would be more immersive if jail lasted for real world years, wouldn’t it?
Surely that’s the right course of action here, immersion and realism over gameplay.

When did i say one is more important than the other? you’re putting things into my mouth now . having a jail system doesn’t innately detract from gameplay. when both immersion and mechanics are done well, it makes for a much better experience. simply ignoring one or the other tends to make for shallow games.

@TheoreticalExistence

Fuck immersion if THIS is the price.

not everyone thinks “this” is as terrible of a thing as you believe it to be. overall it seems like you’re very heated about this topic so it might be for the best if we simply don’t discuss, it’s just going to waste my time and make you upset.

[TheoreticalExistence]

@Gelid_Monkeys

talking to you seems very unappealing if you’re just going to insult everyone who explains their point.

you want me to be friendly? try reading the thread before you repeat shit then.

@Gelid_Monkeys

i did, it helps balance both sides of reputation and prevents the game from being in a constant state of chaos.

oh god its another principal. (he shows up at about 200 if you’re interested)

The game is chaotic with or without this system, heroes can do ALL of the things you’re saying jail stops.

@Gelid_Monkeys

please reread what i typed, i explained it there.

You never said how literally not playing the game is more fun and interactive than playing the game.
(being in jail)

@Gelid_Monkeys

When did i say one is more important than the other?

When you said jail was a good idea and brought up immersion as a point.

@Gelid_Monkeys

not everyone thinks “this” is as terrible of a thing as you believe it to be.

Everybody I’ve talked to that has actually played a villain file seems to.
Sucks that 99% of the community are positive rep players that don’t realize these problems exist in the first place and immediately assume any complaint towards them is baseless.

[Gelid_Monkeys]

alright bro is just going to keep strawmanning, i’m out

[TheoreticalExistence]

If you want me to go into more detail, scroll up, I already have.
I’m not quoting the messages for you.

I sure would like to know where the strawmen are though.
People here sure like to spout that out when they’re told they’re wrong.

If you enjoy sitting in a box for 10 minutes doing nothing, good for you, you’re the only one.

[NineBangerz]

Fuck the 10 minute timeout penalty.

If only the people rating this suggestion could experience being a negative rep before spewing their dogshit takes.

[Anotarr]

I’m being lazy there are probably more in just this conversation but this is a prime example,

@TheoreticalExistence

I sure would like to know where the strawmen are though.

@TheoreticalExistence

Sucks that 99% of the community are positive rep players that don’t realize these problems exist in the first place and immediately assume any complaint towards them is baseless.

Actual straw man example for those at home:

“When one person says “I like Chinese more than Pizza”, and the respondent says “Well, you must hate Pizza”, they have created a strawman . The first person never said they hated pizza. They have been misrepresented.”

Reason this is a strawman:
Jail time poll because of a recent suggestion?

Questionnaire time:

1. Why are you still arguing for complete removal? I think it’s been pretty much shot down by the majority Good & Bad rep players alike.
   (Genuinely curious)

2. If jail time was removed but had to be replaced with some other form of punishment for losing a fight what would you have it be, feed it into the “high risk, high reward” fantasy that it’s trying to fill. Even if the reward is currently lackluster.

3. Why are you so unwilling to compromise on just making QOL changes rather than utter removal?

[TheoreticalExistence]

@Anotarr

Why are you still arguing for complete removal? I think it’s been pretty much shot down by the majority Good & Bad rep players alike.

The entire concept of jailtime sucks.
The main appeals of the game are all related to exploration and player choice/freedom.
Why on EARTH would there be a mechanic that takes that away for any time?

@Anotarr

• If jail time was removed but had to be replaced with some other form of punishment for losing a fight what would you have it be, feed it into the “high risk, high reward” fantasy that it’s trying to fill. Even if the reward is currently lackluster.

I don’t see why it does.
Negative rep already has tons of other downsides that are more than enough “punishment” on their own.

@Anotarr

Why are you so unwilling to compromise on just making QOL changes rather than utter removal?

The concept is the problem.
Not the execution.

If I compromised, nothing would change.

For clarity, I said this in a different topic.

@TheoreticalExistence

the problem is the concept, putting players in boxes to keep them from playing the game can’t be executed well as a mechanic.

doesn’t matter what’s in the box because players will just want to get through the tedious obstacle they didn’t ask for.

doesn’t matter if there’s a way out of the box because players will not have fun doing it multiple times.

and reducing jail time is literally just following the logic I’m following of “less jail time = more fun” so 0 jail time is the best you can get.

[iforgotmeword]

what the hell is this? this just makes me kind of sad can someone close this already this getting out of hand while i agree/agree to disagree on most of the comments this just needs to end

[Tr0xic]

yeah im starting to feel like nothing good will come out of this thread, while i have been agreeing with theoreticalexistence his counter arguments to other people feel… bad and unthoughtful. i think it should be closed, though i also kind of want to see the votes slowly tick up

[TheoreticalExistence]

I have completely ran out of clever responses.
(and I’ve been out of them for a while now)
I was not prepared.

[15Edward]

the best suggestion
play a negative rep file for 100 hours before arguing against this

[Anotarr]

TRUE!!! Unfortunately I don’t think it should be entirely removed and I have a 200 hour negative rep file.