PVE Quality of Life

[Amuka]

while it is annoying that there are items locked behind pvp

atleast be glad none of those items have stats & are purely cosmetic

[GhostHecate]

this is true

[clowGenesis_CG]

@TheoreticalExistence

In all seriousness though, nothing should be content locked behind PvP.
There can be exceptions for stuff like tournament prizes like what existed way-back-when in AA, sure, I’m down.

@howtomakerr

So there is a reason to have pvp on and so there is pvp exclusive content prob

@TheoreticalExistence

ok then lets have PvE exclusive content following that logic.
Delete every pvp enabled player’s fleets!

I think the semantics regarding what PvE and PvP exclusive means is a waste of time when it could be simplified to: “Do PvP activities to get PvP stuff” and “Do PvE activities to PvE stuff”, since a lot of people can easily do both without being forced to strictly adhere to something like the name “exclusivity” implies.

Most people would probably be fine with “PvE Exclusive content”, which is just about everything in the maingame, which as you can imagine makes you have a reason to do the PvE content. Having special stuff for PvE and PvPers is a good thing, makes having the different unique.

It’s reductive to define it in a way that makes it seem like you only do one or the other.

Therefore I will dismiss any argument that hinges on this assumption

@GhostHecate

It isn’t designed for PVP at all. Vetex expressed very firmly that he hates PVP and would gladly remove it from the game through his rant (which you can probably find it with some searching) about how he hates PVP, and it’s community. He only left it in because the percentage of the community that likes pvp would go bonkers.

I halfway agree with this. It is probably an objective fact that this game wasn’t designed for PvP.

But between Vetex saying he hates PvP (Caused by backlash from people complaining about balance), and not adding a PvE toggle… It’s hard to say for sure what his takes are (The latter case is probably why we’re having this convo at al).

But regardless of any opinions, if you have something in the game (especially if you refused to add a toggle for it for the longest time) then it would be in the health of the game to at least maintain it, cuz then why add it all? Just to hold onto a community that you allegedly despise?

I think people put a lot of emphasis on his PvP rant when he could’ve made it in the heat of the moment. Though I feel like still making PvP content has to amount to something.

@GhostHecate

It’s bad game design because it’s making content in a PVE focused game exclusive to PVP players in which PVP is not the focus and is filled with toxic behaviors most of the player base does not want to be part of. Grinding PVE activities is literally the focus of the game, as stated by Vetex in his dislike of the PVP aspect of the game. Exactly, the useful stuff is available, so why not the cosmetic stuff? There is 0 reason to gate it to a niche part of the community and keep PVE players with a limit on how much renown they can have.

The alternatives/options I suggested only give more opportunities for PVE players to stay in the game for longer and still allows the PVP community to keep its corner.

A lot of this is addressed in earlier points so I will skip this and whatever is similar to this point.

@GhostHecate

Catering to a specific play style depending on the feature is ok (if it doesn’t hinder playability for the other side), but practically removing a fun mechanic from players that don’t want to fight other players in a PVE focused game just isn’t good design

I agree, which is why my pseudo leaderboard idea works, since PvE players can also do their thing with their own rewards while being an expansion off what you said. this applies to the rest of the paragraph as well but the formatting would be very long

@GhostHecate

I appreciate the criticism, but the leaderboard system isn’t a PVP feature. If you simply have no player interaction and your PVP toggle off, you can easily reach millions of renown with effort through PVE activities. Several players have done this before and just looking at the ingame stats you can easily see this.
Although your idea is good as well, I think that takes the whole point of having similar systems in order to avoid FOMO. I think the current system is simple and can be recycled into a cloned version for the other side of fence instead of making an entirely new one. It’s not replication of a PVP system, it’s a replication of a system that removes the competitive side of the game for the majority of the player base that plays casually.

I feel like a feature of the game existing to primarily benefit one side (PvPers) can be counted as a PvP feature, Especially if it forces you into PvP at a certain mark.

My idea doesn’t necessarily have to be FOMO-based, since the rewards for it will always exist. (It’s like Mastery in Trove if you’ve played that). I also have no idea how the system being similar to the PvP one will avoid fomo. Also, I feel like making a system from scratch instead of recycling it is gonna have better long term effects but I’ll get more into that later.

@GhostHecate

Alt accounts exist, random players exist. Witch hunting doesn’t have to be the same person, just having a high renown makes you live in fear if you don’t have a good build or are good at PVP. PVP players, even if my suggestion passes, will still have exclusive things. This just adds ways for PVE players to experience the game without being forced to PVP or live in fear of PVP players with the toggle off. I simply want to enjoy the game to it’s fullest without having to cater my play style to players that have combat ready PVP builds and skill/experience on this. I had 0 good PVP experiences in this game, and I believe every other soul that voted for the toggle will relate. Losing 50000 renown in the span of several servers by different higher level PVP players was very frustrating.

I feel like sending waves of people and alts after 1 person is a bannable offense that you can have mods help you with. But this again goes back to my point of how often this happens because realistically how often does someone go hunt 1 person with multiple alts. I also think that people randomly killing you is just apart of how PvP functions. On the plus side you can PvE for all your gear and not have to worry about ever touching it either.

@GhostHecate

Your system, in my opinion, is also a good addition, but my suggestion is made to make it a simple and recycleable addition. Your idea includes an entire new system to the game which requires more work and would make the game even more complex.

I’ll concede halfway. If you intend it to be lightweight rather than complex than there’s no changing that I guess. Though it seems somewhat of a band-aid fix which I guess succeeds at that but the PvErs probably deserve more. Since it’s just “Number goes up, you get reward, repeat”, I’m doubting the complexity of the entire thing. Especially if it has a trickle down effect in other features (hopefully not, at most it’d maybe effect professions and balancing?). Though regardless I’m assuming this would be a net positive

The End

Been typing for a while and now I’m caught up (By skipping points other people already made for me, after I accidentally repeated TBD’s point with extra steps ). It’s 9:00 on a work night as well ;-;

[redcteron]

holy peak

[Galaxi]

Uhhh yea this is pretty cool

[Pipe]

idk whats going on, but me likey

[Based_Trixie]

Fuck the greedy PvPers who think they’re entitled to this game. AO is and WILL always be a PvE-focused game.

And if you PvPers don’t like it, you can take your whiny, sniveling, snot-nosed populations, form a line behind me, and kiss my ass and Vetex’s ass.

[Pipe]

bruh lmao

[Mortifex]

I wouldn’t call people who are just in it for fun insecure, PvP players want one simple thing: excitement. And that’s exactly what games are supposed to deliver.

[Amuka]

than go join a clan if you aren’t already and go to your clan servers where pvp is forced on and stop asking for the toggle to be removed even though the game has more pve stuff than pvp

[bimeshi]

bro i was just about to reply to the actual suggestion then it got locked then right as i deleted my response it got unlocked im crine

@GhostHecate

This could allow PVE Players to have access to high renown currently available and up coming features only accessable to PVP Players currently.

as long as its cosmetic, its fine

@GhostHecate

The new shops using renown have cool items you simply cannot get unless you disable PVP Protection

see above. i think its fine for a game to encourage/facilitate some kind of competitive environment so long as rewards do not affect gameplay

@GhostHecate

You gain lots of renown from Fleets and other PVE activities that simply go to waste once you reach the maximum.

this is an issue because…?

@GhostHecate

Enabling PVP to have higher renown is not worth the witch hunting or ganking from other players once you reach higher renown levels.

then don’t enable it. like these things are annoying but to me this is the biggest reason the toggle exists in the first place

@GhostHecate

For the issue with PVE players with really high renown having no threats or going onto the leader board without the possibility of being knocked down or hunted could easily be fixed by adding high level NPC hunters that match or overpass the hunted player’s level with randomized factions and gear/weapons. Making this feature can be it’s own suggestion but generally could allow lots of possibilities for players who want the PVE side of the game more over the PVP side.

i would rather not deal with this

[RickyD]

While I’m not a pvper my self and never will be. I think having a few cosmetics items in this case faction cosmetics being locked to pvp is fine. It’s like 1 armor set from each and personally there are better sets in the game appearance wise so let the pvp players keep their few cosmetics I guess.

[Galaxi]

Guys re add your votes

[Amuka]

man i’m at my limit

[Galaxi]

Forumers when PvE related quality of life (it’s not a thermo nerf and doesn’t make PvE’ers miserable)

[jimmyjimmy]

thank you for reminding me
effort: 1 star out of 5
quality: 1 out of 5
reasonability: 1 (cant put 0) out of 5

[GhostHecate]

as long as its cosmetic, its fine

Same thing for PVP, this is about renown in general, which is just cosmetic.

see above. i think its fine for a game to encourage/facilitate some kind of competitive environment so long as rewards do not affect gameplay

I agree, but limiting things that have nothing to do with PVP (like renown) in a PVE focused game is gating a fun mechanic away from the majority of the player base.

this is an issue because…?

Because the work that goes into getting renown is pretty crazy, and then it is just removed and that deleted excess is only accessible if you enable PVP. That’s a whole game mechanic, whether cosmetic or not, gated off to a minority of the community for “Competition” when people who want competition and simply don’t want to PVP don’t have that. (Which is where my suggestion comes in, competition in a battle of attrition and effort and not sabotage and PVP dominance.)

then don’t enable it. like these things are annoying but to me this is the biggest reason the toggle exists in the first place

Renown is not a PVP only mechanic, gating it off and just simply saying “leave it on then” won’t fix the issue of a fun mechanic that’s been part of the arcane games for years being blocked off because you simply don’t want to participate in PVP in a PVE focused game.

i would rather not deal with this

If you want to keep your renown limited so you don’t have to worry about these kinds of things then maybe it should even be an option in the suggestion if it ever came into a real feature. But speaking for most players who don’t like the renown limit, and want competition that isn’t PVP related, this is a great alternative to enabling PVP and dealing with toxic players instead. And I’m not closing my mind on this, other challenges are very welcome as ideas for this suggestion.

[GhostHecate]

Lwk had respect for you, but this is just hating on a completely reasonable suggestion.