i dont really think this is a great way to go about diversifying builds
Remove Power and Defense
effort
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so you want to diversify builds by⌠making them have the same exact damage and health as everyone?
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gotta remember drastic nerfs to all these stats exist now to keep players from over investing in one area. Dimishing returns or a soft cap or something like that.
either way i think this system is a step in the right direction, as now these other gear stats can be balanced without having to take into account a players emphasis on power and defense.
it also means overall defense and power rates can be tweaked around this stat total or efficency points based system.
To me it makes it easier to tweak the whole system, and balance the other stats around this.
thats if we go with the method where stat total defines your total power and defense benefit overall, and ignore the differences allowed by having a much higher amount of the other stats.
if instead stats give one or the other in addition to itself that can lead to a different result as well.
That being said maybe its possible to tie this Power/Defense boost around your class or ratio of class stat points. That way classes contribute somewhat to diversification.
Like Say Oracle gets lower power and more defense than Mage which gets more power and lower defense on stat totals.
and maybe some added math to mixed classes where its adjusted based on the overall mix of the stats. So Paladin you can end up with a 50/50 split if your class stats are in the right way.
there are ways of making this work, even down to just making each stat useful to have in its own way so players diversify their other stats.
thats the trick, you donât LOSE the stats, instead you get more power and defense based on your stat total, or mix of the other stats.
so instead of leaning one singular way, you have more variety in your builds. Bosses in theory wouldnât become more difficult as a result of this because your general power level wouldnât decrease significantly.
wouldnât this just cause everyone to run the highest EP worth of dexterity or haste to have the highest possible damage output while also keeping a high health pool, thus forcing everyone to run the same exact build if they want to be competitive?
any solution youâve offered here just encourages you to run the same exact build as everyone else
depends on how gear might be rebalanced for this setup, because obviously stats like haste would need to be put on more gear to be as effective.
im not saying its a drag and drop perfect solution, i am saying its probably a really strong step forward to being able to balance out stats.
people unfortunately will always meta and min/max the key is not to make it impossible to do so, its to make it viable to do other things and still have a fair chance.
your solutions that you offer literally reduce build diversity by just encouraging you to max out your dps options through haste and dex with absolutely zero downside as your power and defense will just scale on the number of stats you have
except if the numbers add up, you can actually have other stats.
the key here is balancing out the amounts of stats across gear, and balancing the stats against eachother instead of against two stats that will almost always simply be better by default.
its not a surefire solution, but its an improvement because whats happening now is just adding a bunch of power or defense and nothing else.
heck ive already described how instead stats could give one or the other rather than both. So its not just about pure biggest number.
haste could also be nerfed somewhat to compensate
there are options with this idea, where there are simply no options atm to actually solve the current issue with build stagnation. other than just throwing out nerfs willy nilly.
I understand the reasoning behind this suggestion, but i personally donât think this is the way to go about it
With the current stat system, having substats is supposed to be a tradeoff. it brings some sort of decision making when crafting your build. for example, you can choose to forgo some of your damage to make your attacks easier to hit (range/size)
even if they arenât as ârequiredâ as power/defense, they still have their uses in different playstyles and builds. By having a high amount of any substat(s), youâre sacrificing damage/survivability in exchange for the bonuses of those substats, and by removing power/defense youâre sort of removing that tradeoff
this would also be kind of hell to balance, if not far more difficult to balance than the current stat system. just for a few examples:
- imagine facing off against a high regeneration oracle with these changes. that fight will never end
- imagine facing off against a high haste mage. they will be popping out maximum damage annihilations and ultimate art lost knowledge enhanced spells as frequently as trisha paytas gets cancelled
- imagine facing off against a maximum size metal mage. now they can delete at least half your health bar unless youâre a god at parrying
- piercing will definitely become required in pvp considering it can erase the effectiveness of all of your substats in one hit at high investement, and this system will have EVERYBODY using a lot of substats
im rlly bad at explaining things so mb if some of the points are a little iffy 
i think your missing the overall problem that you simply never want more substats than what comes with the best power or defensive gear.
its becoming a problem that the trade off is almost always never in favor of substats.
Id also like to point out size and haste and such have gotten nerfs to prevent these problems specifically.
Size now has a damage fall off for example to prevent the exact scenario you are describing.
and i mean if pierce becomes required, good. People should diversify, having some pierce alongside your other substats is atleast an actual trade off and not just one sided.
in the meta this is true, but like i said, youâre trading off damage/defense for whatever your invested substats offer. removing power/defense will only introduce more issues
i wholeheartedly agree with you here
yes, but even with the damage falloff, youâre still taking damage. currently it wonât be that much damage since you canât have both high size and power, but with the proposed system maximum size builds now have free maximum power to boot, so suddenly even after damage falloff, dps is high too, and weâd likely be back to the max size metal mage era
with pierce basically invalidating substats, you will be at a heavy disadvantage in pvp if you donât invest in it. it being required like this essentially makes it a worse repeat of the problem you stated with power/defense being required
people will run substats because theyâre forced to, yes, but they will now just be treated as the equivalent of power/defense since the actual substatâs effect is basically treated as null and void. where would the diversity be in any of this?
generally if any substats effect isnât the best, then the diversity comes with taking on whatever substats personally make the game more fun and accentuate your specific build.
evening the playing field will open up more opportunities now.
the issue with this system is that pierce would become the best substat. and like i said, in the end no substatsâ effect will be the best because none of them would actually work due to pierceâs effect rendering them completely ineffective.
all cooldown reduction, endlag damage resistance, lifesteal, etc would all disappear with one hit, and all there would be left is their power/defense bonuses, making it no different from everybody running only power/defense. and if you donât run pierce, then your opponent will most definitely win as itâs basically 0 EP in substats vs over 1000 EP in substats
sure, with pierce dominating the meta you would in fact even up the playing field for everybody, but there will be little to no opportunities for diversification
btwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
vetoed 
maybe it can end up as 75% efficiency
Maybe if different stats have different effeciency in terms of how much health/damage they gain
Haste/dexterity would give lower amounts of power compared to the other âattack statsâ since they already increase your dps via their base function (attack quicker & more often)
Same with regeneration giving the least amount of health since itâs main function is already giving you bonus durability via life steal (healing on top of having more health)
if this doesnât happen we would just get a 2-3 stat meta of only using dexterity/haste & regeneration, so their Power/defense boosts would need to be lower than the other stats in the same categories of power/defence
people will keep using the substat with the most âpower additionâ and nothing will change lmao
honestly i had considered that but was concerned if that would be too complex.
Though its possible that maybe power/defense gain from a singular stat has a âsoft capâ to make it inefficient to only put it all into 1 stat.
nothings going to change right now either, atleast this way its more viable to go all in on substats, and those substats can be nerfed or buffed to make them more appealing.
If size could get damage fall off, i dont see why other substats couldnât have similar measures to make it sub optimal to overly focus on one stat.
i think your looking at this idea in a vacuum and not looking at the larger picture of what could be changed around this as a foundation to allow for a more interesting stat building experience.