Should Cannon Fist Even Exist?

Cannon Fist feels like a fighting style that was carried over from AA without considering the nature of AO. In AA fstyles were very basic, without multiple techniques to worry about, so CFist being as simple as specialized M1s worked.

Translated into AO, its only gimmicks are ranged M1s and ammo. This reflects completely in the numbers; Cannon Fist is rarely used at all as a first-FS but skyrockets in usage as a 2nd-FS, practically screaming at you that it’s “M1s the fighting style.” On the other hand, ammo only affects damage, which is practically terrible because eventually, people will stock up on enough Heavy Explosive/Grapeshot to terrorize others without worrying about ammo.

It’s also the only fighting style with a nonsensical Warlord imbue; which although somewhat unimportant, it goes to show that CFist is a stretch; an attempt to make an incompatible design work. Time and time again people have suggested different reworks to it, only to be ignored or denied. The entire fighting style feels like it can be summarized as “leaves more to be desired for.”


Recently, I've heard some ideas about making Cannon Fist into a technique rather than trying to salveage it as a fighting style; allowing it to be as niche as "just throwing Cannonballs" without any more complications. To some extent it it feels like giving up, but sometimes it's important to consider how things are meant to function rather than just the concepts themselves.

A fighting style about throwing cannonballs sounds cool, but if it can function similarly as a technique, why make it an entire fighting style? Take another recent example; Vanishing. I still love the idea and believe it can work, but I’ve noticed a strong argument could be made for just having it as a technique. Thematically speaking, the idea of a stealthy fighting-style sounds perfect, but functionally, but it also needs to apply to your entire kit. Invisibility as a gimmick, however, must be heavily limited to avoid being oppressive. These two dynamics create a big problem.

As a technique, Vanishing could be a one-time use controlled by a cooldown. This is a much more effective limitation than a meter, offering stronger control over its effectiveness. Cannon Fist can be viewed through the same lense; being designated as a technique allows it to be used without applying to all techniques in a way that only serves to disappoint people; while maintaining most of its function.


As with anything though, there are multiple perspectives to consider. Boxing is as simplistic of a fighting style as Cannon Fist, if not more simplistic. Yet nobody objects to its existence. Maybe, rather than expecting more from Cannon Fist, we could simply accept it as it is and try to work around that. After all, it is the **2nd** fighting style you're able to learn.

In fact, do we even need to demand more from it? It had a menu mechanic; and that was imprerssive enough. Sure, changes to the stats of each cannonball have been denied in the past, but I could totally see the possibility of bringing back the menu with only a few ammo options; that are all perfectly balanced stats-wise. I imagine the only reason it was denied orginally is because there were so many different cannonball options; and having them all change your stats is very questionable. I struggle to see the problem if it were just 3.

As for the imbue, it could simply just be a strength-boost, unrelated to Cannon Fist’s abilities. After all, it does take strength to be able to throw cannonballs, so it would make things make so much more sense.

Maybe all the suggestions about changing Cannon Fist were a matter of expectations rather than a reflection of its quality/uniqueness; and it never needed much changes to begin with.

Let me know your thoughts, I’d love to hear more thoughts from Cannon Fist users in particular, seeing as how this affects them the most, but all opinions are welcome.

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I always saw the return of boxing and cannon fist as a way to stay in line with AO being a spiritual successor to AA. However, while boxing managed to find its uses (increased block strength and knockback on attacks) cannon fist’s gimmick rarely comes into play outside of niche cases like punishing enemies during endlag. And as you mentioned different ammo types don’t really differ that much outside of damage, funneling people into just stockpiling whatever deals the most damage and never touching upon the weaker ammo types.

The entire style’s gimmick of converting your FS m1’s into a ranged attack could easily be turned into just a passive you get from a technique scroll in exchange for a skill slot. Unless Vetex has some major rework in mind for the style that would incorporate the gimmick better, I just see very little reason to keep it beyond a universal passive.

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I’ve always felt that cfist should have a different skillset to work more like a range-focused fs (beyond m1s).
Like, crash should turn into a strong throw or something like that

That was originally suggested but stuff like that is never gonna happen. CFist won’t be getting anything super ambitious.

From what I can tell Vetex doesn’t want to have anything too major/complex for a gimmick as it would mean worrying about how “X technique would be changed by Y style gimmick.”

ok but cannon fist doubles the range of all Techniques. Less damage over distance. And maybe some movement attacks (like Selino or Crash) dont move you.

As a cannon fist enjoyer, i take offense to this topic’s entire existence.

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how about trying to make its gimmick more appealing?
lets look at all the current fighting styles.

  • Basic is pretty rounded
  • Boxing is fast and has knockback
  • Iron leg is slow but big
  • Thermo is fast and has a dot, and relies on a meter
  • Sailor applies a status effect and relies on a meter
  • Vanishing makes you invisible and relies on a meter
  • Powder fist causes secondary explosions

how about allowing a few different ammo types maybe. that are infinite. Maybe… light, normal, and heavy? and all 3 affect your range and damage? kind of like a stance change in fighting games

  • light makes your moves have a lot of range. shot, crash, etc, but lowers the damage. the range will be quite a lot too, allowing “sniping” almost
  • medium will just be pretty rounded, but will still have quite significant range. since cannonballs are a ranged thing
  • heavy will decrease your range but increase your damage

this could make each cannonball have a select situation to be used in, and of course you can still spam m1 for yeeting them. this will allow its gimmick to be like

  • Cannon fist has good range but its dependent on what cannonball you use
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unfunny one piece reference that vetex refuses to make changes to.

Glass cannonfist destroys ears so that justifies its entire existence for me

You have yet to fully realize the extent to which Cannon Fist will not get anything.

Sniping ships:
Aoe:

Cannon is pretty cool
That is all the opinion I have to say in this thread

Take away my exploding balls, see what happens.

As a Cannon Fist user myself, I agree. A major problem I see with Cannon Fist right now is that it re-uses the menu from using Cannons on ships, down to the bastardized order that the cannonballs are put in. It causes lag and makes the player sort through their list to find the type they want to use. It also uses them up really quickly, making you put countless Galleons into your Cannonball supply, not only for yourself, but your ship too. There’s also how expensive it is compared to when you can unlock it at the earliest, but I’ve made that tangent more times than I want to.

Side note: I doubt any of y’all actually use anything besides the Heavy Exploding Shells and Heavy Grapeshots. I don’t know how so many people came out of the woodwork claiming that having all cannonball types allows for creativity when Vetex made that Cannon Fist poll, especially since most of them are just about worthless or outclassed.

Having just three cannonballs would help reduce lag on equipping the Fighting Style, particularly if they were infinite as Misinput suggested, since there’s be less of a need or no need to scan the inventory. Speaking of Misinput, if people genuinely think that “creativity” is Cannon Fist’s selling point, then having the common Cannonballs side with a different stat (Speed for light, Power for Heavy, Neutral for Normal) would solve that issue while also fixing what’s wrong with the style.

Hell, this could also be used as the framework for a Cannon Fist upgrade later down the line, with Grapeshots, Chainshots, Dense Cannonballs, and the Heavy Exploding Shells replacing the normal Cannonball types. It wouldn’t be much different, but you’d gain an attack size-based option along with types matching the normal three.

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While I’m here, hibernating forums-wise for the Easter event, I’m going to say that I don’t exactly like the idea of Cannon Fist’s M1 becoming a technique. It might be weird with some styles (Iron Leg and nothing else that we know of), and I feel like you’d be better off using Shot for ranged stuff. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise, though.

Cannon Fist is just a worse version of embodiments/shapes when you think about it.

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Wait what the fuck why are you right

It’s basically Embodiments for every applicable technique, and without relying on being a Berserker to use them (or having to wait for an update that adds more options).

I just need holding down the m1 button to hold you in the air instead of making you fall down.