Stun Changes

Some examples:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxt2ZMhAQaS9R62pxM85hbcdB5DKCqlTTM?si=eSOuFc9-LD7K1wyO

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxjMFwNxch8B9ykTh3rlJuz-7ZLKaqsz9g?si=ZGSNVOqSC6qvpvBw
I have personal anecdotes but I never clipped any of them

Edit: Why are forums so bad at YouTube embeds, I can either send a couple of clips that don’t embed or send the video at the correct timestamp and it starts at a random timestamp when you click on it. :fr:

NOTE: THE YOUTUBE CLIPS ARE BEFORE STUN BUILDS WERE NERFED although I can confirm that stun combos are still possible, the streamable clip is from this patch.

previously they all also did the same thing apart from paralyzed which ragdolled instead of stunned. its the same for consistency (+ its easier to balance), and the ‘movement speed affinity’ is basically agility lmao

cancelling agility i assume just means temporarily setting u to 0 agility stat

Principally I agree but none of the suggestions were good (aside from just changing the numbers around). Ability lockout was discussed and determined to be a bad idea. Locking stamina options or movement abilities maybe but that’s still pretty restrictive. Changing any of them to DoTs falls into the issues I explained earlier.

I mean if you can jump 20m high I wouldn’t be surprised if you can somehow move while Frozen :skull:

2 Likes

gonna be honest the one change I seriously don’t agree with is making t jumps take less stamina, because “people ran out of stamina while fighting due to the new movement options”

like, that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? you’re not supposed to be able to move around so much

I don’t know why that was pushed to the balance doc tbh, typically we discussed lowering T-Jump costs along with other changes and since those other changes aren’t being done I have no explanation.

The problem with the current stamina system is that the most heavily costing option is the option that’s least problematic, whereas the movement options that actually harm gameplay cost a lot less. You’re not gonna stop people from T-Jumping because you can’t be on the ground for too long in this game and using up other aerial options to substitute for T-Jump has its own consequences (typically you’ll always use these options after every T-Jump anyways so you can gain more height) and also just doesn’t feel right.

An idea we discussed was lowering T-Jump and blocking costs in exchange for raising the stamina costs on dodges/reflexes and potentially making other forms of movement cost more stamina. We decided not to do it for this update because we don’t want to risk such a large rework to stamina right now. I’ll ask Meta about why the T-Jump change was pushed but I’m not gonna fight for my life to get it removed (why would I hate it :person_shrugging:)

wind conj wasnt affected so i dont care

finally, no more wasting my abilities bc of stuns

Just make the dodge reflex actually able to regenerate when stunned??!

as a non stun user being able to move again will be great i think

not my freezerinos

Would be a good change since stuns are really inconsistent at the moment and causes the opponent to teleport to a random spot after stunning with ice due to desync.

U probably run a aoe build if u cant hit people because of dodge reflexes

I don’t run AoE builds
I run attack speed builds

besides I’ve seen a whole bunch of dodge reflex spammers
fight a knight mosquito build and you’ll see what I’ve been fighting :t_rex:

??? Wdym, the 1 second stun fully stops you for a second while this only SLOWS you for a second, so you’re going faster than before

Its hard to keep track with tje movenment but thats the point… if everyone is just nuking each other at close theres no skill or strategy

gg stun mages

As an ice mage user this is a huge debuff for me. In addition the fact it says “addressing the meta” is not true at all for ice mage, as I can only get in 1 extra hit during a stun, and it’s not always reliable. I have to have high attckspeed with speed aura and a speed shape to pull it off since ice is so slow. With this change, the one who is being frozen can easily dash away or t jump up, avoiding this extra attack entirely. I’ve talked to a lot of people, in the PvP community and they either say ice mage is downright bad or good with skill, no one said it’s meta. Without this extra attack it is just so much worse. I propose a few options to fix this. 1. Increase freeze time or make it scale based on magic lvl, 2. Change sailor style in some way, since it seems to be the problem here, making ice and lighting warlocks meta. 3. Change the movement debuff to increases it to something high like 80% or make it scale with magic lvl. 4. Perhaps increase ice speed (bad idea ngl) 5. Revert this change? (Likely not what people want). 6. Reduce cool down for same stuns. Or make it scale based on magic lvl. Overall I really disagree with this change since it changes other builds, not just meta warlocks and mages. Thank you for allowing me to express what I think

I think the difference between Mages who can follow-up on their stuns and Mages who can’t is how they choose to follow up on their stuns. E.g. in the clips that I sent in this thread look at how the Mages use either Pulsar or Javelin to secure high damage combos, or how they continue to follow up after the stun already ends (not all of the value comes from comboing people while they are stunned, just using the stun to destroy their “momentum” and put them in a bad position is enough).

While you could do specific nerfs to multihit skills to reduce the effectiveness of stuff like Pulsar and Javelin, 1. I don’t think those cover all the problems, and 2. I think the vast majority of at least PvPheads just want stuns gone completely. We did a poll in balance-cord and it was about 80% approval for outright removing them with a high sample size. I’m sure a poll in AOSL or Clan Hub would have the same results.

Slows are also a lot easier to work with in terms of fine-tuning the numbers.

I feel like that’s a good thing, is it not? You should not be given an extra free hit every 10 seconds because you decided to run a certain synergy combo, which applies passively. These changes also allow you to make buff Ice and make it more reliable on its own rather than relying on stun-synergies for it to even be used in the first place.

I’m surprised you’ve never heard it referred to as meta because for AOSL tournaments in particular (which is where a lot of the PvP community tends to compete now), stun synergies have literally been banned for how obnoxious they are.

As for your solutions:

  1. Already half duration on hybrids
  2. Sailor style is not the issue
  3. Numbers are always subject to change, 50% with agility negation just seems to be the most reasonable right now, people underestimate how much of an effect this would actually have.
  4. No this isn’t even a bad idea actually, but right now we’re looking at increasing its damage because we feel like that’s more fitting. Ice should probably be pretty slow.
  5. Self-explanatory
  6. Changes like this shouldn’t be implemented until we understand how impactful slows actually are in practice. If slows end up solving the problem but being a little bit too weak then yes the cooldown should be lowered. That’s part of why making them as slows and not stuns is better for everyone.

if stuns are changed to slows it’d be interesting to have intensity change how much it slows, sort of intensifying it, though this could have some of the same problems as stuns if it’s too extreme

Stuns scaling of Magic lvl is pretty damn stupid, so Magic should just have insanely broken stuns for free?