The problem I have with warrior (long rant)

Hi everyone, I just want to preface this and say that I have no real clue on things like balancing, so while this is more so about warrior as a whole there will be some things around balancing both in PvP and PvE.

So Warrior, a “versatile” class that can on paper deal with any situation given the build, with three weapon slots from the start with each weapon type having their own selection of skills allowing you to make weapons ranging from short range berserker like attacks to long range attacks similar to that of a mage… but the problem is when you take a look at any other classes in the game, since currently to my knowledge Warrior is the only class to have no proper synergies, what I mean by this is that Warrior can only use weapons such as the ruined Fulmenor and the scald tooth dagger to apply a 1 second long slowing effect that has a cooldown on the target, but Mages, Berserkers, and Oracles are all able to get increased damage when attacking enemies with certain status effects. TLDR Warrior doesn’t get extra damage from synergies.

Another thing with Warrior is that they seem to have a pitiful amount of higher level attacks unlike other “pure” classes, just for an example Fury of the sea is to my knowledge the only attack that warriors can use that is similar to pulsar, which is really useful in PvE scenarios where you need large AoE that can deal with swarms of enemies, such as raiding forts, but even then I believe that weapon hybrid builds (excluding Savants) can use Fury of the sea while also imbuing a magic, fighting style, or even relic onto the sunken staff, Roar of glory is one of the few high level attacks that Warriors seem to get exclusive access to (with the current level cap), but the only other high level weapon attacks is Avavos technique which is just simply a light bladed throw that immediately afterwards leads into a high jump or a quick boost downwards… but said movement is fairly predictable and the smoke to my knowledge doesn’t do anything aside from adding a bit of visual flair, but the attack itself seems to deal the same damage as the normal throw attack just with an added downside of having a longer cooldown. TLDR Warriors don’t really get the moves that other classes get that are useful for PvE scenarios, example: annihilation being really good for forts.

Plus Warrior isn’t really as good as some hybrid classes from what I’ve found due to the ability to imbue as that can drastically increase the damage of weapon attacks or give similar if not greater stats than what Warrior’s awakening gives, but that’s already been talked about in a different post. TLDR Conjurers can use their ability to imbue to get similar if not better stats than Warrior’s awakening.

And to end things off I just want to say that I still do favour Warrior… but I think that’s mainly due to how easily I can change the weapons and also how much I’ve invested into getting higher level weapons (and even then that’s ignoring how some of the higher level weapon attacks are tied to some of the hardest to obtain weapons in the game, which subsequently end up being more expensive than most of the high level lost technique and spell scrolls). TLDR me talking about why I like Warrior, but also complaining about how rare and expensive it can be to get high level attacks compared to other classes.

…okay that was a lot… so what does everyone else think of Warrior? Is it really comparable to other pure classes and hybrid classes, or does it just feel a bit… neglected in a sense? And please let me know if I’ve gotten anything wrong and your opinions regarding Warrior as a whole!

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I forgot to mention as well that some abilities similar to other non weapon attacks (such as crushing judgement and crash) seem to have a larger amount of end lag in comparison to their non weapon counterparts, and also how a good amount of weapon attacks seem extremely similar to each other (example: flying slash, flying phoenix, incision, piercing gale, striking gale and sky breaker seem overly similar to each other just with different projectile speeds, AoE size, and damage) and how this bloats weapon skills to a large amount.

Woah, you should a tldr, this is TOO long for someone to read. Also, warriors are not bad nor need a buff, its that concept of magic is way more versatile than warrior could ever be.

Let me give you some examples from the past, pre-release times, when warrior was way too op, and why it was so.

1: Post Nimbus Era: Having increased AOE , dmb, and a new skill in triasta; extremely large aoe in sunken staff; new combos with movements, warrior quickly became extremely op, an arguably was the best class in post nimbus era. In this era, warrior’s superiority was stemming from its AOE, high damage grab combos, and unescapable sunken staff moveset. Lets look at an earlier example to better understand why and when warrior becomes overpowered.

  1. Era after arcane oddsey first released in 2023 (after the first update where mage and aoe is nerfed heavily): In this era, warrior was second to best class. What made it op was INSANE aoe in vindicator, the amount of distance covered in one skill of vindicator (if you do not know, you could damage ~300 from one side of the Munera Garden to the other side with only vindicator, yes huge aoe and movement), and triasta flash and grab. Any similarity?

  2. Last but short one. After arcane oddsey released for the first time, Merlot’s silent blades were the meta weapon, as you could not damage a person while using it, it was hard to escape, and it was very punishing. So yes, it had huge AoE and punishing features, slow gameplay though.

What both periods have in common is that warrior have some weapons exlusive to itself that has crazy AoE and movement potential. Does it still have that kind of potential? Mostly no, but that doesnt make it any less weaker. Warrior, after full release, will never be able to be the meta or op because all skills that had AoE in warrior was punished aggresively over the updates. Vetex and balancing teams mostly trying to make warrior a class that has a fast pace and agility, not something that has insane aoe and dmg.

Every class has a counterplay, except shadow/wind mages, and warrior most of the time, with smart move set and strategy, comes out on top.

The thing is, if they even slightly update warrior in the wrong direction, it can become very op very quick. It is really hard to balance warrior because one needs to think about other hybrid classes, and this complexity might be the reason why you are feeling warrior is neglected, which is for the most part is true.

The reason that some skills have lag and long animation is because they dont want those skills take over pvp and pve arenas, as I said, if you buff something that already has inherent potential, it will become unbalanced. There is literally no other class other than conj/warriors that has so much innate potential, thats why they are hard to balance. All the lag in warriors is just so that players can punish them. As for PvE, warrior was never and will never be the choice, you simply lack damage and AoE output. This is mostly because you can’t damage ANYTHING when you cant see them, otherwise warrior would be the best pve class (sunken items).

Also welcome to the forums, I hope you can find what you are looking for here. @Dudeman

@Dudeman

While I have played AO before the nimbus sea update I’ve never known that warrior was that powerful, it does just come off as a bit… forgotten in a sense with full release, since all the other pure classes to my knowledge have good AoE and damage moves (I do understand that using fighting styles in PvE is quite punishing, but at least full release added a lot more scrolls and also the poise break which I think can be used to stun lock bosses) but Warrior has mainly gotten a high level mace that essentially is a normal mace just with a weaker version of the paralyse grease, a new dagger throw move that’s just marginally different to the normal one, and one really good acumen like buff that has a long startup time which allows you to be punished easily, which is a lot less than other classes got*. TLDR other pure classes got more stuff for their class in full release.* (In my personal opinion at least)

But overall if Warrior is being tuned down a bit before getting better stuff then I guess Warrior is kinda fine the way it is, since in no way do I feel like Warrior needs a buff nor do I feel like other classes need a nerf, it just feels weird that other classes get more stuff in general (stat related armour, “passive” effects in a sense like how berserkers can escape from whirlpools a bit easier, mages and clear status effects if they have the right magic, oracles seem to have natural regen on some attacks and they also get proper synergies.) TLDR other classes seem to get more “passive” effects and other things for their stat build specifically.

I just hope that whenever Warrior gets some new weapons with Warrior exclusive skills that Vetex doesn’t make them sunken weapons just due to how rare they’re compared to Relics and Strength weapons. (since I find it weird that Colossal Cleave just gives what is essentially Fury of the sea on a weapon far easier to obtain than the Sunken staff)

@Dudeman @fartman1314

Im lowkey tired

it’s okay fartman. i’ll do it for you.

one must imagine fartman happy, after all