Thinking about AO's stats and game design

Given we have a lot of time to theorize about AO and its mechanics, we think about a lot of the gameplay decisions as well as how stats work. And to start it off with, I myself think that the game’s biggest problem is the stat priority.
(apologies if this is unorganized and very rambly. Im just trying to get thoughts on the table.)

tl:dr if you dont wanna hear my schizo rant

  • AO needs more build diversity by reducing how important power, attack speed and Defense are, and encouragement to make diverse builds. Likely by restricting how much you can get of those stats, or by forcing restrictions on the player to force more management on them (mostly in regards to the new energy system)
    Old intensity was the only good attempt at this, in regards for build diversity.

aka: AO needs gimmicks and niche builds. (that are viable)
The 3 new substats were an attempt at this, and old intensity did this pretty well. Please bring back old intensity. My plasma misses it.

But. There’s no incentive to invest in them. Power Defense Atk speed does it better.
Why get armor piercing when Power does it better, why get resilience when defense is just better?
I’ve had a few ideas on theoretical changes, from entirely redesigning the stat distro to just some ideas.
I don’t expect AO to completely overhaul its stats. But this game needs build diversity. All builds I see only use Attack speed, Power, defence, and rarely attack size if its a nuke build.

Hot take: original Intensity was good. It was niche, rocked well on some builds. But didnt work on others.
For plasma users, you could use a superheated charged Arcsphere and tha’d be juust enough to squeeze an extra second of scorching. Was it good? I dont know. But it was Niche.

I dont know much about old intensity nor old meta pvp loadouts. But especially with General Agros’ armor.
you could in theory sacrifice a lot of defense and build for a DoT Focus/Aura build.
So for a plasma Mage. the intensity would give them about 5+ seconds of scorching, with them relying on their Aura to make up for their lack of defense.

And this alone could allow said Plasma mage be more supportive, since Scorching has great damage synergies, but only 3 seconds to take advantage of it.
So, even if the plasma mage has low damage, their fire warlock can take full advantage of the extra time, and the enemy now has to deal with 5 seconds of Scorching.
(this is all hypothetical btw, I know it wont really end up like this in practice)

or a magma/Poison mage that focuses more on Crowd control with massive puddles, which would also increase their status time inadvertently (in theory)

The new Oracle stuff does seem to be acting like a niche playstyle. But assuming the new update doesn't fix the build issues. They can just use the same build as everyone else and the problem would continue to fester.

One of the theories/idealistic views of the upcoming update is how they’re reworking the energy system.
from my very small view on the game, the reason why max atk speed power builds can work is because there’s no downside. with infinite energy, as long as you don’t get hit. you can hit them forever without any punishment. (and also because substats that aren’t size/atk speed are useless)
I don’t know how the new energy system will work, but if it worked like most traditional magic systems. If you want to go max attack speed. you HAVE to make those hits land, or back off and hope to god you can regen your mana fast enough to jump back in and swing.

One smaller idea is making the stats have a pokemon like system that could in theory encourage group play (that aren’t all using the same builds)

Resilience weak to AP
Power strong to Resilience

Defense Weak to AP
AP strong to Defense
And with the Oracles coming in. You could have a tanky defense oracle, which means if you want to kill them. (faster) you’d have to invest into AP.

Don’t know how this would work, but in theory resilience could be better for mobility builds, while defense is better for sheer brick wall builds

This idea is one of my “rework the whole system/Nuclear options”
remove main stat enchants, maybe reduce how much substats are given from enchants, and only allow players to get their main stats from armors.
to put this into a smaller scope.
Boss armors, Arcaniums, and the Sophragos set (and things like it(assuming they were the only armors) would be good.
Soph set would be glass cannons, Arcaniums could play different roles. Such as the iron set being for tankier builds and so on.

My friend had also come up with an idea that I mine as well put on the table:
Making food buffs work similer to Deepwoken: Where the buff takes a portion of your energy, and drains as you use energy. Which again, would encourage players to not minmax on attack speed
With I myself coming up with food buffs working similer to Valhiem.
Assuming the “nuclear don’t allow main stats to be enchants” idea was a thing.
if you wanted more durability youd have to eat Fish based meals, with wheat based meals giving something else, mushroom based meals giving another thing and so on.
or making a mixed meal for an even distro.

I know this is a mess of a post, but I wanted to get my thoughts out and see what others think. I wanna see the best from AO. I know its a PvE game first with pvp kinda thrown in. But if PVP is going to be apart of the game, then it has to be held to a similar quality to the PvE.
I have a lot of complaints with some of the game’s designs, but thats mostly in regards to intensity, and the Darkseas. Ive already discussed my thoughts on intensity, and the Darkseas isnt relevent to this rant.

Atk speed is just fundamentally broken. its like playing chess against an opponent who can move 2 pieces every turn, you will be ran over with no counter

4 Likes

Also, if power/defense were harder to obtain, people wouldnt have to min max defense and power. as from what ive seen, people only get so much power because everyone else is using the same ammount of power. the only difference is how much more power do you want to sacrifice your defense for? AP would’ve been perfect for this. (in theory)

Expessily if they’re running a nuke or high power build.

Attack speed is definetly one of the bigger issues with stat distro. If Power/Attack speed/Defense were harder to obtain in mass ammounts, or were discouraged or even punished. (by making other substats better and more reliable) it would definetly help out a lot
Also, if power/defense were harder to obtain, people wouldnt have to min max defense and power. as from what ive seen, people only get so much power because everyone else is using the same ammount of power. the only difference is how much more power do you want to sacrifice your defense for? AP would’ve been perfect for this. (in theory)

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ALSO. One thing I forgot to mention but is the biggest contributer to everything.
The sunken warrior set. If you have the SW set. you are just better. It’s the main thing every “best build” orbits around.
A full SW set and juggle between a few good Acessories.

The SW set to me kind of just. Embodies everything wrong with how the game’s stats are currently designed. And its better to fix it now rather then when its to late

Alanteans kind of contribute too, but I think if substats were made better. and Alanteans couldnt give main stats that could help a lot. As all we use alanteans for is a free 10-20 power…whiich is always paired with the SW set, or a tanky armor piece (Cernyx set when modifiers werent around yet)

(Sorry for deleting the original lol. Im new to this, and I was just trying to clump up my message chain)

you called?

I honestly would like to see more proper build diversity, but I have no idea how to make it happen.

OH GOD

Most of my ideas, like I mentioned in my rant are mostly by forcing players to do diffrent things.

tl:dr of those ideas.

make AP and Resilience sidegrades to Power and Defence
Power will melt resilience users (you “overpower” their resilience)
Defence will melt to Armor pierce (Its armor pierce)

Revert the intensity nerf (I want my 4 seconds of scorching back PLEASE)
Seriously tho, Old intensity was fine. though apparently it was really strong on Aura/Focus.. which could’ve been tweaked

And by punishing ability spam with the new energy system. (similer like 'tradicitonal" Mana systems.)
And of course figure out ways to encourage gimmicks and quirky builds.

Or my Nucular option of removing main stat enchants, and making you only able to get main stats from armor.
Maybe one day the community should do a tornement where Enchantments of any kind arent allowed and see what happens to see if this hypothetical could work in practice

For AP atleast:
Outside of PvP, this is already the case. (AP gives a static damage bonus by its % boost)
Inside PvP, it depends.

Intensity wasn’t nerfed, it was changed to be viable on all builds, the effects you’re looking for would fit more on gem substats.
(don’t potency/infliction gems do this?)

Ive yet to see anyone suggest a build using AP. PVP or PVE, I remember AP not working well in PVE. Which could be fixed by making NPCs wear armor and such.

OG intensity was turned into a Gem. And no one uses new intensity as attack speed does it better.
Of which, the new Potency gem (which is original intensity) in order to get 1 tick of extra scorching. you require every single gemslot in your build to be Potency gems, and have the max roll on it. Which can only be gotten via poison teeth.
At that point just get Energy regen + Attack speed and hit them twice.
I myself havent tested this, but im going to do some testing right now to make sure im not talking out of my backside. But even if the requirments arent that major. energy regen + attack speed is just better (as of current. Energy rework and all that)

The intensity “rework” has been more of a Nerf in my experience. And I define it as such. Original Intensity could at least be used in some builds. The only one I myself am aware of is using a Charged Superheated Plasma Arcsphere, as it was just enough to squeeze 1 second of extra scorching
But I know it also effected Aura/Focus, as well as puddles and effects from stuff like magma and poison

In regards to the intensity Gems.
Ive yet to run tests on them myself as I do not have the resources to do it. But from what I had gathered, unless you are using Musgravite gems with maxxed out Status duration gems, you would need 90% of your gem slots filled in order for 1 second of extra scorching. And as im a plasma user, I base things off scorching since its the most affected by an extra second

No, it does, its just slept on.
4 fire opals gives you a straight 18% damage boost in PvE regardless of the target NPC’s build.

Each max roll infliction gem is a 2.5% boost to status durations, 10 is 25%, 10 musgravites is +50%.
How long does scorch last?

With 4 fire opals I could just use Candelaria instead, deal more damage regardless. And attack faster without punishment. Which circles back on my point that substats arent good enough to bother investing into as Atk speed and Power just do it better.

It lasts for 3 seconds by default.
Though I may look into potency gems for my build

in that case, I’m not entirely sure what you’ll get since I don’t know if it rounds up or down… or at all!
25% boost could either give:
+0.75, +1, or +0 depending on which it is.
50% would give either:
+1. +1.5, or +2.

well, I just tried using 6 regular duration gems. I dont remember what their numbers were, but avraging lets say it was 7% or 8%.
Nothing happened.

If Musgrevite posion tooth gems are required, then this entire gem stat is pointless.
even then I prefer original intensity over this.

if you were rolling 7%/8% on potency gems you weren’t rolling potency gems lol.

anyways if you want to not suffer abysmal rolls, use T4 mystery brews, roll luck 4, and win.

1% for each Status duration gem, I used 6 of them. And due to some of them having a .x ammount, I avaraged that as at least +1 %

I didnt know mystery pots could roll Luck. Even then, I dont have 10 poison teeth to gamble for gems.
And theres a 90% chance it wouldnt even work unless I used Musgravite

how much status boost did you get before with pre-change intensity?

i truthfully and honestly think the stat system should be removed in favor of a per armor set / accesory bonus type deal similar to Terraria

builds cant even really be “diverse” with the substat/stat system, everything just makes you harder to kill, kill faster, or easier to hit things

i think they should try making the efficiency of a substat be affected by the affinity of an ability again so that abilities with high speed won’t get that much faster and high size abilities won’t get that much bigger and could actually use attack speed
i can level all of caitara with 3 attacks on my size explosion file and with enough attack speed magics like shadow and lightning become undodgeable at close-medium range and are very overwhelming

with a super heated charged Arcsphere (about 40 intensity) I would get 1 extra second of scorching