8 if you include earth existing
ok after reading some more stuff my view has been changed
recently other devs have been helping vetex implement pvp balance
and i also found out that not all of the stuff on the balance doc he was actually implementing. most was just vetos or not implementing them (hybrid adjustment still isn’t implemented)
so ig we can keep pvp then, I thought he was still doing a ton of balance changes
i also noticed that people are more happy with the game when it gets larger changes and not small immersion ones
realizing that its bait
then it’s not a meta, is it now? holy shit 
crazy how the one thread where i don’t blast insults all over someone falls on it’s heels, says alot about some of the misinformed freaks on this site
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then it’s not a meta, is it now? holy shit
It is. If something is part of the meta of a game, it’s widely used and regarded by the community as good, which LC was prior to 2023. For example, Palutena in Smash bros. While not technically being groundbreaking, she still has an excellent place in the meta of the game, despite not being widely recognized as nearly the best. LC was also regarded as a very well rounded class, one of the best even, especially for beginners. Although it didn’t completely overshadow other classes, it still held a large spot in the community, which many found to be annoying. The fact you don’t remember this is very odd…
crazy how the one thread where i don’t blast insults all over someone falls on it’s heels, says alot about some of the misinformed freaks on this site
You stated that you were “inclined to assume I lack skill”, that I have no grasp on lightning magic (which I do since I used it profusely in WoM and still use it to this day, and while it pales in comparison to your infinite lightning knowledge, it doesn’t mean I know nothing about it), called my mind “muddled” for simply not specifying I meant the popularity side of meta, and overall used very condescending wording with your replies
As for the meta response, when I was talking about strategy, I was mainly referring to builds, not what spell to spam and when. Believe me, I’ve had my fair share of bullshit when it comes to PvP. I was one of the few people who actually knew of and how to use the Poison Magic Nuke in WoM.
And when I was talking about combos, I meant combos with weapons and fighting styles, not combos as traditionally used by fighting games.
Apologies for the confusion on those, and I hope this was able to clarify a couple things and make the argument a little more grounded for everyone.
What kind of mistakes do you have to make in PVP to end up dying within thirty seconds of the match? The entirety of the games combat system depends on endlag- without it, combat becomes ten times more skill based. There are people out there who can consistently predict and land shots outside of endlag, but there aren’t enough of those people for the average PVP match to last thirty seconds.
This reminds of me people who say “spam” after being defeated in a game, except in this case when referring to AO it’d probably be correct. AOs PVP never has had and probably never will have comboing, and nobody really put that much effort into a real “gameplan” when PVPing so I’m not sure what you mean by strategy. (Going for synergies would probably be a “strategy”, but people still go for synergies to this day.)
And describing AOs PVP as “random bs go” is inaccurate, too. Spamming every key on your keybind won’t work unless you have a very specific build meant for mindless button pushing, and even an ATK size power build suffers from the same weakness as an ATK speed build- endlag. If you’ve been going into PVP and spamming self explosions or sparrow thrust or whatever move you feel is most comfortable, that might be why your fights are so short.
…Savant meta…?
This whole post tells me you didn’t listen to a single word of my response
Oh come on, how was anyone supposed to know you meant “weapon, magic, and fighting style” combos?? Almost everyone I’ve ever known has referred to combos in PVP as a set of keystrings.
We are not the same 
Sorry I don’t want to read 89 replies of varying length. Besides, I don’t know if anyone shares my ideas.
Wait hollup are you the same guy?
…The same guy?
Ohhhh shit mb you’re not the guy who I responded to. Mb for sayin’ that
you aren’t making any sense
I thought you were 64arc. I messed up tho and forgot to read lol
Apologies bro, we cool?
But yes, Savant meta
Just you wait fellas…shit’s goin’ down soon…
I don’t know about soon. It’s by the time savants start unlocking ultimate arts that they’ll become ridiculous- but that’s a ways away. If anything, mage, warlock, and berserker can be considered current meta with high damage options, mobility, and potential at close/long range.
yeap, it’s all right
Well just think about it. They don’t really have a counter atm. The best thing to counter them is probably mage, but even then, a good defense stat and some range is more than enough to go toe-to-toe
Going by that way of thinking, any hybrid build can be considered to not have a counter since they all have both ranged and close ranged options.
The point of savant is options over mastery. Sure, a savant can use Piercing Gale just like any other warrior can, but the Warriors piercing gale is both faster, probably more impactful, and has a bigger AOE. Same with mages. A savant can use synergies like ice and water or fire and ash, but a mage can do it ten times easier with an ultimate art to boot.
If you pit a savant against a pure or dual hybrid build, both of equal skill levels, the savant probably loses. Having less AOE and speed makes attacks more difficult to hit shots(Which is also why almost every savant runs speed. Good luck finding an ATK size savant), and the fact that savants don’t really have a “trump card” really just makes them kind of underpowered at this point. Conjurors have built in bleed synergies as well as an AOE and speed increase(depends on magic imbue), pure builds have ultimate arts (excluding warrior, but warrior is just overwhelming in general)…
All this to say, nothing really proves savant is objectively meta. It can be amazing if you’re already good at the game. But that applies to literally every class.