tell me why wind should do both more damage and be bigger than lightning, while having practically no drawbacks over it. It also has knockback, meaning hiting arial opponents with a multishot blast confirms every hit of it. And no, “lightning wins more clashes” isn’t a valid excuse as it only wins 2 more clashes than wind does. Not to mention that lightning seems to do less damage than pre-halloween update.
nerf wind or buff lightning to par with the rest of the magics.
the damage is definitely big, but lightning comes out with some of THE best damage synergies in the game, with water lightning being an iconic combo.
Sand lightning is also crazy.
wind has like no synergies at all, VERY little destruction, and doesn’t automatically remove bleed (which is the most common status effect in the entire game)
You can’t just cherrypick things to try and prove a point. That’s not cool
I’m talking about 1v1 scenarios, which is where magics are usually compared. Wind comes out on top way more often than lightning due to the stats being objectively better.
We don’t have a direct comparison between speed and size so let’s use multiplication.
1.05 x 1.4 = 1.47
1.5 > 1.47
The size comparison is practically useless if Lightning’s speed makes up for it, it’s literally 5% bigger meanwhile Lightning is 7% faster (going off the current measurements, we’re re-assessing them currently so the speeds could be different).
Hitting aerial opponents will be much more to your disadvantage than hitting grounded opponents, knockback provides advantages and disadvantages. Also there’s the fact that Wind placed explosions literally give your opponent the advantage in almost every circumstance. Wind still has beams though, and Lightning’s beams are pretty bad in comparison, so I guess you could use that argument but this is something to consider when using knockback as an argument.
This isn’t a very valid argument at all. First off, Lightning doesn’t win 2 more, it wins 3 more. Secondly, you also have to take ties into consideration. If you include both wins and ties, Lightning beats Wind by 6, which is much larger. Then, you have to consider the exact details of the clashing. This is more subjective which is why I left this to last rather than using it as a primary point, you can make multiple arguments for this. Lightning can actually stand against solid magics, which is pretty huge, and when it loses to solids it doesn’t lose as harshly as Wind does. However, Lightning loses to liquids, which Wind ties with. Wind wins against powders and gases. I personally think that winning against solids is probably something pretty darn valuable, but once again you can argue either way. Wind also averages lower clashes than Lightning, meaning that the clashes it loses hold it down by a lot, though it is important to say that when it wins it wins slightly harder than Lightning. I’d personally say Lightning is probably winning in terms of clashes looking at the numbers.
This is probably one of the most important details, pointed out by Several_People. Lightning is far better interaction-wise despite Wind being able to apply Frozen. Another factor is paralysis, and although you may use all the “33% damage lol” arguments, if you actually look at every possible method that you can use to boost attack damage, it would be possible to induce paralysis, it would just be a high-risk-high-reward scenario. However I do agree that this sole factor doesn’t make it miles better, once again it’s something to consider, after all I did literally just say it’s high-risk.
Yeah this is a valid point, I’m not sure if Wind should deal more, but there are many, many other factors that I just listed that should be taken into consideration before we jump on the nerf-train.
Onto clearing effects, Wind clears a ton and Lightning clears bleed, I think Wind has the slight edge but it’s subjective, bleed is pretty darn important.
Overall I would definitely say Wind is better in the current state of the game, it seems very counter-intuitive to everything I just argued but notice that most of the arguments I made were for things that don’t have much value rn such as clashing. However, I do think these should be considered because stuff like 2nd magic are on the LTR so it isn’t something we’ll be seeing centuries into the future, yes a while, but not as much as it would clash rates to become something that can determine fights.
This is actually a pretty complicated situation. Lightning beam is pretty generally agreed on to be off in some respect, though it seems to have the same hitboxes as other beams from what I’ve currently tested. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were off, but I can’t make that argument especially if it seems to lean more towards them being the same.
One thing I can 100% confirm though is speed, despite being the 2nd fastest magic, Lightning beam is the same speed as an Iron beam. That’s laughable considering that an Iron beam is a fair degree slower than an Ice beam, so there is an inconsistency, I can’t say that it’s a matter of how the beam works, just a matter of its inconsistent speed.
So in terms of what I have personally observed, same hitboxes, jank speed. I might have to test the hitboxes some more but I can’t say they’re different.
However, if the Lightning beam animation for some reason finishes a full 0.1 seconds after the actual beam hitbox ends, then yeah it would be consistent, but judging from using the beam and observing it, it’s relatively consistent with the animation (of course not perfectly consistent because it grows in segments rather than all in one, but if it’s off by a whole 0.1 seconds then there’s something wrong there)
TL;DR Lightning has plenty of advantages over Wind but Wind is probably better RN, though I do think that since many of these are coming during 2nd magic we don’t need to buff Lightning while we wait.
Lightning wins 4 more clashes and has 3 more neutral clashes than wind according to Meta’s document. Lightning also has a much better destruction (even if people generally don’t care) and more interactions that are also more or less better that wind.
Yeah I have no idea what’s better in general, I’m just adding these to the debate.
