A question about elemental curses

Game Discussion
67

Curse users are immortal, this means they have an infinite amount of time to train and become resilient to the pollution from Durza’s attack. Furthermore, this resistance should be innate in a curse user. If a normal person can swim in the ocean without any problem, this means that there is an inconsistency with the “magic energies clashing” claim, and it can be discarded. Now that this has been removed due to its illogical roots, we can now run every scenario mentioned minus the “magic energies clashing” nonsense.

1: Normal people can swim in seawater :white_check_mark:
2: Curse users can swim in seawater :white_check_mark:
3: Wotan can create usable boats out of his curse :white_check_mark:
4: Cursebeard can possess more than 1 curse :white_check_mark:

All of these are things which can be seen in the game, meaning that for all things considered, the “magic energies clashing” is nothing but utter nonsense and can be discarded from the story entirely. Up until now, to my knowledge, curses were called curses because they sentence you to live an immortal life, the curse being that you will have to see everyone else around you eventually die, unless they too become curse users. Moreover, this is not a novel concept in AO lore, there are plenty of things which grant something great like immortality but curse you with something else.

68

They are not completely immortal, they can still be killed.
Normal people can swim in seawater because they’re normal, meaning they’re not the magic energy. They can channel it, but that’s it. You need magic circles to channel it, whilst curse users don’t, as they in a way are the magic circles.
And I’m quite certain that the clashing is a fact. If a person with light magic and shadow curse tried to use the light magic, it would only result in extreme pain for them as the two energies are vastly different. Cursed person can only use a magic if it’s the same, or possibly similar, as their curse.
Just the way a fire attack blows up a poison one, or a lightning attack turns a sand one into glass, I believe that the curses clash the same way. What attacks you is poison or sand energy, and you’re using fire or lightning energy to defend yourself. Curse users are these attacks, so they’d clash with other attacks, or energy for that matter.

69

When I said immortal, I meant that they do not die to conventional means, and they also have eternal youth.
You’re ignoring everything I said. It is still illogical for this “magic energy clash” to exist, and it is contradicted by things that already exist in the story. (Cursebeard having 2 unrelated curses, Wotan having ships made out of his curse sailing in the ocean)

70

Correct, that is literally what we’re talking about
There is evidence in game that says curse and magic of different energies cause extreme pain to user and evidence that says curse users who touch seawater imminently blow up
Yet we have 2 curses that should clash in the same body and parts of curse users that are in the water all the time
That is the issue

71

“evidence that says” can be discarded unless it is shown, it is directly contradicted as you just admitted, so the idea of energies clashing can be discarded.

72

because not all magic energy is the same, if you were a water magic user and absorbed the fire curse for example, it would be as if water magic is clashing with fire magic because your entire body IS fire magic, and it would cause you immense pain to try to use water magic afterwards. It works the same way with other magic types, because the curse is a specific type of energy it will reject any other type of energy
Said by vetex directly at How exactly do curses work? - #37 by anon1881879

73

vulnerability to water isn’t a thing, curse users die in the sea because the sea is polluted with immense amounts of magic energy since durza’s attack split the world into islands, which conflicts with the magic of the curse user and tears them apart
Also said by vetex directly at How exactly do curses work? - #41 by Vetex

74

I’ve already seen both of those posts; I’ve never even implied that the weakness is to water. It’s obvious that the claim is that the energies in the sea water conflict with the user, but “magic energies conflicting” is an erroneous claim within the lore.
It has nothing to back it up within the story itself.

75

The example you provided has yet to be demonstrated (to my knowledge).

76

I’m a bit late to the topic, but I’d like to give my theories

So, since curse users can turn themselves into their element at will, that must mean that they are just a bunch of magic energy particles taking the shape of a human, however they somehow manage to still keep their original appearance, and will always return to that whenever they aren’t using their curse powers. (there aren’t a bunch of curse users turning themselves into literal dragons and stuff, and Averill couldn’t make a true new arm for himself, only one made from light)

This probably means that the elemental form is something the curse user can turn on and off at will, or as a reflex when dodging attacks. The user basically turns into a bunch of magic particles for a little bit to allow attacks to pass through.

Now the only things that have been confirmed to be able to harm curse users are magic energy (and weapons using magic energy, like devourers), and spirit energy. Because the seawater is infused with lots of magic energy, this sort of activates the curse user’s dodge reflex, so they completely turn into their respective element. After this, the curse and magic energy react with eachother to create the funky little explosion, signature move of Morock.

But why don’t curse attacks and curse created objects also cause a big reaction like submerging a curse user into seawater?
My hypothesis; the difference in surface area and density.
If a curse user wants to dodge an attack by turning into their element, it’d be best to turn into a lot of small particles, with low density. This would allow attacks to more easily pass through them, and would make returning to their original form faster, considering they wouldn’t have to turn big chunks of their element back into their body.
Attacks and objects would have a relatively small surface area and a much higher density, considering they have to pack a punch, and you’d probably want a solid projectile otherwise it’d just fall apart within a second of casting.
A smaller surface area means less interaction between the magic energy in the seawater and the curse energy, and the higher density would mean that there’s much more material that can react before it’s all gone. If you’re an especially good curse user, like Wotan probably is, you could practice with creating denser and denser objects, which would last a lot longer in the magic polluted seawater.
This would make Keraxe ships heavier and sturdier than regular ships, which would make them a very strong force to face off against.

77

On the topic of Non-Curse users, Curse users and the Magically Irradiated Seawater. I think a decent way to understand things is how Potassium reacts to water, and bananas.

Water of course being the Irradiated Seawater - go figure - Curse users being pure Potassium, and non curse users being bananas.

A banana as you all likely know and have constantly been told, contains Potassium. In the similar way to how regular humans - and virtually everything - contain magic energy.

When a banana enters water, it is completely fine aside from the fact that it is absolutely soaked and likely soggy now. This is the way how regular humans interact with the Irradiated Seawater ftmp. (Don’t stay in magic pollution/polluted areas too long as the reasoning why can be directed to our fellow Atlantean friends. )

However when pure Potassium interacts or enters water, it handles things a bit differently. .

As you can see, a bit different by comparison. .

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This is what our Curse user friends are, them completely turning into pure Magic Energy. Aka pure Potassium in this analogy, reacting to water which is the Irradiated Seawwater.

Not a very good combination.

“But Sai!” As you interject,

“What about the attacks/created Magic from Curse users reacting to the Irradiated Seawater?”

And to that i say look no further than the magic you use yourself. After all, what is the difference between, lets say Wood Magic for example.

From a Wood Curse user and a Wood Mage, outside of the fact one happens to last longer than the other?

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For all intents and purposes, that’s all there really is to it honestly outside of pointing the obvious.

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1 Like
78

I just realized that, the video is showing Sodium and not Potassium which also bears a reaction to water.

BUT THE POINT AND ANALOGY STILL STANDS.

ShanaPout

Potassium in question for those liking explosions and walk the path of explosions:

1 Like
79

sai being too good for the ao forums again

4 Likes
80

Could you explain why both of them don’t explode or react to seawater? I don’t really get it.

81

I can only really guess and speculate here.

As of right now discounting the fact that at some point we’ll eventually learn how to use magic underwater. To which i can’t remember when Vetex stated it, likely in the Nimbus QnA rejoice Heat Magic users.

I’d imagine it’s due to concentration/density shenanigans or something. Where it does have a reaction to the Irradiated Seawater. But it isn’t in enough to cause any big huge reactions like Curse users themselves would.

For Mages, it would dissipate similarly to how it does out of the water when it comes to Mages. Like Salt entering a cup of water and dissolving into the surrounding water.

Magic being the Salt and the water being Irradiated Seawater of course, but at seemingly different rates?

  • Fire Magic and similarly other Heat Magics would just do what they element would do underwater.

    • Which inadvertently gives the impression it’s faster, when the steam created can count as part of the Spell/Magic.

  • Wood and other Magics capable of being used underwater would stay awhile and disappear like they would outside of water.

This is what i guess is happening since it lines up with the implication/speculation. That Magic NRG likes to be in it’s neutral, free-flowing, non-elemental state.

DiantheReading

For Curse users, since the Magic they produce doesn’t dissipate nearly as fast like Magic from Mages.

(idk if they are there permanently, i vaguely remember Vetex saying the Metal used in the Arena in the Second Sea would disappear eventually a long time ago).

It’s likely under the same rules here just in much larger and broader timescale.

It’s dependent on the Curse element as well - I don’t think we’d be surprised if Rupin’s Fire would dissipate underwater after awhile - but since Wotan was brought up, and the reason me using Wood as an example.

It most likely is no different than what would happen if a Mage used Wood Magic underwater. With the exception that it wouldn’t dissipate and probably sink after interacting/hitting something.

Or given speculation on Wotan, be perfectly fine material to use for boats and other Wood shenanigans he comes up with.

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So yeah. . That’s all i really got speculation wise. haha

1 Like
82

Nothing you said makes sense within lore, and Averill doesn’t have an arm made of light, even if he did, it isn’t specified that he is unable to reconstruct his arm, and even if he couldn’t, this is AO and Averill is in AA which was basically entirely rewritten.

83

Except he does?

84

Screenshot 2024-06-17 at 20.14.10
are you ignorant or just trying to be a contrarian?
either way, you shouldn’t talk about how things work in lore when you don’t even know the basics of said lore

also how dare you insult the Shining King, Averill.

86

As I already said, thats AA and this is AO.

87

How does that disprove averill having a light arm