Arcane Odyssey v1.13 Balancing Changes WIP

[Crim]

They wont go that low to nerf the mobility part of FS, with its rushdown playstyle
right?

right?

[auvi]

If people didn’t use it to infinitely run while staying airborne the entire time it wouldn’t be a problem in my mind.

(I’m a assassin cardinal and gank frequently, I see fellow assassin berserkers abuse this as well as targets we hunt)

But I’m not sure other people see this as a problem like I do.

[Fluect]

@auvi

it suggest buffing lighting because it has less damage than wind, but also suggest nerfing wind to be worse than lightning, which was the entire reasoning for buffing it in the first place.

Nah cuz a slight damage change wouldn’t be enough. If you just buffed Lightning’s damage it would have the same damage as Wind much less size and slightly more speed. We could put Lightning at .9 like it was at before but we’re looking to move gradually to prevent a drastic meta shift (0.025 isn’t much but 0.05 is a big difference).

@auvi

Furthermore, lightning has better synergies and a better effect even by itself than wind. I’ve personally seen lightning do CRAZY things, especially with synergies or just in water fights, which are VERY common due to the nature of the game.

In regards to better synergies you could argue so but it’s not an objective truth. The best synergy Lightning has is arguably Paralyzed in which Wind has Frozen, both Soaked and Freezing increase damage by the same amount so in regards to the best synergy Lightning and Wind tie.

In terms of environmental interactions then yeah you could argue Lightning has better synergies but in a neutral environment you don’t really have that benefit.

That leaves Lightning’s advantages over Wind being Paralyzing ult and environment, but worse base stats and similar potential with 2nd magic. I don’t think a slight damage buff to Lightning and a slight damage nerf to Wind is gonna flip that.

@auvi

Another thing I’m confused about is the sunken defense nerf. If you guys are going for 1:10 ratio with power, what is sunken being compared to? It seems to be calvus, although calvus gives similar attack size and even agility, sunken is MUCH harder to get and its defense should be above the 1:10 ratio in comparison to calvus gear’s power.

Yeah, the goal is a 1:10 ratio, apparently, the judgment was made in regards to someone who addressed the topic in a video and some people happened to agree. Although I’m not very sure on the plans for Defense so you’d have to get @Inferno to respond or someone.

@auvi

I’m also curious if you have any ideas about mobility nerfs? Mostly fighting style’s mobility and also kind of magic leap’s cooldown.

We talked about this recently as a result of well-warranted complaints about spiralling/thermo users. We have a bunch of ideas we’ll have to decide on (e.g. capping the max range but keeping speed uncapped, reducing speed scaling, making high-flying attacks cost two air-movement charges, something along those lines). The average fighting style user ideally shouldn’t be affected, only those who build in speed in hopes to become an astronaut.

Magic leap isn’t really on the radar.

@auvi

I was also curious if you guys think Vindicator damage is okay? It’s insanely low for it to be “warrior’s version of pulsar/axe slash” (the dash has endlag and does like 100ish damage at max level, triasta’s dash is slightly higher in damage and much faster for example)

Weapon damage is bugged right now, Vindicator’s damage is scaled to a higher level cap than is currently attainable, Vetex has fixed that for the next update.

[Fluect]

@Fluect

We talked about this recently as a result of well-warranted complaints about spiralling/thermo users. We have a bunch of ideas we’ll have to decide on (e.g. capping the max range but keeping speed uncapped, reducing speed scaling, making high-flying attacks cost two air-movement charges, something along those lines).

Regarding this, if we acknowledged a problem but no solutions are on the document it’s probably due to a lack of consensus on what should be done because of either multiple ideas (e.g. with Glass), or no working ideas.

[auvi]

@Fluect

In regards to better synergies you could argue so but it’s not an objective truth. The best synergy Lightning has is arguably Paralyzed in which Wind has Frozen, both Soaked and Freezing increase damage by the same amount so in regards to the best synergy Lightning and Wind tie.

In terms of environmental interactions then yeah you could argue Lightning has better synergies but in a neutral environment you don’t really have that benefit.

That leaves Lightning’s advantages over Wind being Paralyzing ult and environment, but worse base stats and similar potential with 2nd magic. I don’t think a slight damage buff to Lightning and a slight damage nerf to Wind is gonna flip that.

I more so meant lightning’s synergy is much easier to get into effect, as hitting the water once at any point leads to their synergy instantly activating

Lightning users can also abuse this fact and play in water / run in water when low / pressured

Lightning also can stun you without any synergies as well

But thank you for your insight and replies

[Inferno]

@auvi

Another thing I’m confused about is the sunken defense nerf. If you guys are going for 1:10 ratio with power, what is sunken being compared to? It seems to be calvus, although calvus gives similar attack size and even agility, sunken is MUCH harder to get and its defense should be above the 1:10 ratio in comparison to calvus gear’s power.

Strong: 7 Power
Hard: 72 Defense

Power Amulet [Fair]: 26 Power
Defense Amulet [Fair]: 259 Defense

Defense boss drops are the outliers as their ratio is slightly higher than power ones. Sunken is still higher by about 7%, just like before. If we made items effectiveness purely based off rarity, then Carina’s kit would suck, Calvus would be the only viable boss drops, and Sunken would dominate HARD. It shouldn’t be a big deal as unless you’re stacking as much defense as possible, you won’t get lowered too low.

[auvi]

@Inferno

.

Thank you, by the way, I was curious if this document has recognition from vetex.

Like, has he said anything about taking into consideration / adding the things within said document?

[Inferno]

forgot to mention
fixed titanium numbers being in the wrong place woops

[Inferno]

its official
probably not everything will get added but a large majority likely will

[auvi]

@Inferno

probably not everything will get added but a large majority likely will

im very interested in the warrior changes, with the upcoming vindicator changes giving it devastate access and the triasta changes with the new bruised/charred effects I think using it will be very fun

hope those get added

[APerson]

mages are currently the only class than can reliably win most fights by specifically using 2 moves

Piercing gale and mirrored river are 90% of the moves I use.

[auvi]

Oh yeah, do you guys look at/consider clash rates? Certain magics have successful clash rates against most other magics.

I’ve never played mage myself so not entirely sure how badly clash rates effect two magics colliding.

The fact I see no specific changes to earth or metal is kinda worrying.

[APerson]

I’d like to know why corroding is getting all of soaked’s good synergies aside from paralyze and why heat magics are getting an extra burning effect on soaked.

[Borg]

Thanks for replying!

I’m happy just knowing it’s at least being considered.

Glass is in a pretty bad spot compared to other magics, after all.

[thewhitejawa]

i WAS confused on why you love glass so much when i thought that using glass is lame as fuck when you have FIRE and MAGMA and PLASMA but then i remembered how glass happens

UNFATHOMABLE HEAT STRIKING DOWN INTO THE DESERT
SO HOT THAT EVEN THE SAND BEGINS TO MELT
AND FROM IT, A NEW ELEMENT IS BORN WITH THE POWER TO TEAR INTO AND TEAR OUT OF ALL WHO FACE YOU
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHH
so anyway i dont see it as lame anymore

[ImaLettuce]

So glass’s stats are staying the same, only is it’s bleed stacking getting readded to make the magic unique again? It’s not getting faster, it’s not shrinking in any way?

[SpectreTheFox]

I’m really happy about fighting styles getting that 10% damage buff, hybrids really need that. I can say from experience, the damage you get from going up close with fighting styles is not at all worth the risk. When I quit the intended rush-down playstyle and used Crash for airstall/air mobility and spammed Shot + Blast + Beam, I went from consistently losing to consistently curb-stomping against my friend. And it really shouldn’t be like that, I want to use the playstyle I signed up for, I want to be able to fight up close. The damage boost combined with the changes to endlag get me very excited, I look forward to warlock standing a chance without having to put days of playtime into learning how to hit every 20% size Shot.

[Sith]

also rq why do we need to use 20% shot size

[LastWay]

Question regarding this Conjurer patch:
“Multiply all magics damage multiplier by 1.1. This will make sure magics like Earth do more damage while imbued, in addition to making up for the size loss.”
Q: With Earth embue isn’t its damage already 1x? With this patch would it be 1x+0.1+0.1 with the Bleed compatibility fix. Totaling to 1.2x damage? Also is the projectile speed affected by Magic Speed?

[_B1]

Thanks for replying. I agree that the synergy damage should be close so that there’s a reason to use it. The stacking idea is good if a stack counter gets added. Stacking crystal the whole way then swapping should do more than 20% but not drastically high like 35% (although multi-hit moves exist). 35% could use a nerf as well but I think people also complain about ultimate arts doing the damage bonus twice? Not sure since I haven’t seen it myself but is that being changed?

I mentioned water before because I thought the synergies were lacking since the soaked effect is labelled as a catalyst magic when paralysis and freeze (stuns) are the only thing it offers. It will soon apply scalded and frostbite so that may help increase variability as a catalyst. Maybe soaked earth for a mud slow effect (or is that being saved for mud magic) soaked + sand or sandy + water for a quicksand effect (slow).