Exactly, make us do some weird dungeon in the far reaches which is guarded by heavily armored atlantean brigs and we have to fight some level 300 atlantean boss in the end, It’s easy to make for the dev (building something that resembles a dungeon, not much work is demanded from us and then just putting spawns in). It is still very hard but you can easily say “I fucked up” instead of getting tired from the tedium
I’m gonna be real with you, man.
Look at all these other ‘class identity’ examples and tell me magic isn’t horrendously lame lol.
This class is defined by versatility, this class is defined by its melee capability, this class is defined by its ability to be horrifically tedious.
If magic’s entire identity is being a massive pain in the ass to deal with, fuck magic’s identity, it sucks!
Genuinely, I don’t get your example with “wow this guy’s using an underrated magic that’s so cool!”
If I have to sacrifice basic QoL and common sense to get that experience, I’ll throw that experience in a dumpster, set it on fire, and never think about it again.
If we wanted to preserve class identity, Vitality would’ve kept some form of health manipulation.
and to be honest, the biggest problem is that Hecate is honestly gonna get worse. Looking at it now, we might get faster brigs and stuff, but there will be more things at insanity 3 to worry about, and then we’ll still have to factor in the RNG aspect of it.
Think about all the content the dark seas are going to add so it can be even further in the game. By the time we’re at the stage where we should be in Insanity-3, it wont even be worth going for the essence to switch your magic for 90% of the people playing. Its unnecessarily boring, not hard.
I’d prefer if we had to fight 5 level 400 Atlanteans because I know i can get the essence after winning, compared to exploring some dumbass island that might have some small purple cloud within the already endless abyss of purple with next to 0 vision.
add healing rites so i can make a support light/healing paladin who spams healing rites and multihit light moves to blind the opponent and heal my friends
Magic already has a class identity as the most customizable one with every spell having different variations and shapes
Exactly!
at the very least add a sensing indicator
if its like AA where you see numbers on people/npcs it should show “???” on hecate essence so you know its there
On one hand, thinking that hecate essence being a tedious nightmare is magic’s entire identity is straight up delusional.
On the other hand, even if that WAS magic’s entire identity, its identity would need to change because that’s a dogshit class identity.
Imagine a whole fourth of the classes being defined by how much people hate interacting with their systems, Walyn, you cannot be telling me you think that’s a good thing.
We could have a dungeon or boss players could try to attempt in the dark sea that could give unique rewards, and give you a hecate essence in the end. Then it could be less tedious, and players who don’t use magic are still encouraged to try the dungeon/boss. And it would still be able to be difficult. And the feeling of using magic is still kept. It might have to be in the same spot though, maybe near mount othys?
So add dark sea castrum? Huge issue i see with this is actually finding it in the mostly random mapless dark sea
Yes, but it should be less laggy for it to be good. It could be near mount Orthys so people can place their spawn there and get back quickly. It probably should not be random, or its randomness should be limited to near mount orthys. It could have a unique biome in every server to keep the dark sea effect to make up for the lack of randomness. Oh yeah, we could make the dark sea compass point to the dungeon when we are near to it. This probably is too large a scale of an idea, but if it could be pulled off, it would 100% be worth it. of course to encourage multiple players, we can have multiple people come in and have the difficulty + rewards scale, but not as extreme as castrums. Also I think if the dungeons had puzzles that could be completed depending on your build/ type of magic (heat, solid, e.c.t.) this would really add to the effect. Anyways I think I cooked but I could be wrong. Also perhaps some parts of the dungeon could change each time, so even an experienced player who has done it before will still have to think.
Also this totally is not suggestions out of suggestions.
Also apologies for my poor formatting/ wording of my thoughts, I will work on it.
Good news, that’s not magic’s entire identity. I talked about the decision angle specifically because that’s what Hecate Essence is a part of. There’s more to it, but that more to it isn’t relevant to the thread.
It’s not even about the underrated/less popular magics, it is about the commitment. They can’t change their magic on a whim, so they have to figure out what will make it work for them. That sets it apart from the others.
No, changing the game to make acquiring something easier, ignoring any other facet of the game, isn’t QoL.
It is easy to dismiss something when its flaws are exaggerated. Weapons are lame because you can only do up to 5 things with the weapons and can’t customize them, and fighting styles are lame because they need gimmicks to make up for a lack of range or having any interesting tools other than “punch”.
Guys, lets PLEASE keep this conversation civil. Not just Walyn, but everyone. Our whole goal on this topic is to create meaningful discussions on how we can improve this feature, we should not ridicule other sides thoughts just because they do not align with our ideals. This goes for both sides. I know people a bothered by Walyn’s reluctance to make hecate essence strictly easier to get, but I appreciate his input because he genuinely made some really good points that made me question how we should go about making hecate essence bearable. While the way he said it, making it “easier”, was confusing, when he elaborated, his concerns made a lot more sense. Let’s PLEASE appreciate other people’s thoughts and try to understand them instead of label them off as riding vetex, or a tantrum simply because they don’t align with our ideals. I appreciate it when people make good points that rethink my ideas, or realize the flaws in them. Lets all do that when talking about issues like this instead of mindlessly devolving into animals barking at each other. We are here to criticize ideas, not people.
You are correct, I have edited my post to remove the more inflammatory remarks, I apologize @TheoreticalExistence .
I would like this post but the power of the forum daily likes compels me.
Anyways, thank you for listening to me and also providing some much needed thought to this discussion! 
I don’t have a problem with magic resets being hard to obtain, I have a problem with how they made it hard to obtain by just taking the huge chunk of the player’s time.
It’s a fully RNG dependent grind which could take 5 hours if you’re really lucky or over 10 hours if you aren’t. If you don’t find it then no matter how long you’ve been searching you still haven’t made any meaningful progress. The way the dark sea is set up getting out to layer 3 takes around 27 minutes of sailing, so the player is encouraged to dedicate long play sessions into the search or else the sailing time severely cuts down on searching time.
I suppose the main reason for Hecate Essence’s rarity is to enhance the immersion and permanence of your initial magic choice, but for a player who’s been searching for quite a while the immersion is completely gone, because nothing takes real human being out of the experience quite like wasting their time. I’m not going “wow, changing magics is really hard, I guess I should be happy with what I have,” by this point I’m thinking something more along the lines of “that was a complete waste of the last 5 hours, I still have homework due next week and can’t afford any more leisure time.”
I genuinely think it was better how it was before Hecate essence was added, because at least for casual audiences it was clear that their magic choice was permanent. The current implementation is almost taunting in the way that it’s presented as a possibility but quietly requires a time sink larger than starting the story over from the very beginning. It leaves the players dissatisfied because they’ve invested more than it should be worth and not only did they get nothing, they’re also still stuck with a build they don’t enjoy.
Yes, I agree. But what I got from his post was that just making hecate essence easier to get would make magic feel less like magic, and more of a glorified laser gun that is a pain to change. I do think that the grind for hecate currently is insane, and feels pointless. I believe that making a dungeon/ challenge that is difficult to get it would be better, since even if you cannot get it the first time you will still feel as if you are improving rather than a waste of time. Also it would work for other insanely rare items such as acrimonies and sunkens. And if it still is to easy to get, we could have a little RNG in there, just not as crazy and also pity for those who have really bad RNG.
No, this topic is a pond and we must be the fisherman. Continue the bait
Bro is fishing for the sunkens (crashouts).
didn’t you just call this a good thing?