Is AO PvP really that bad?

Game Discussion PvP
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I AM IGNORING BOUNTY HUNTING AND LBs ENTIRELY, I DO NOT WANT TO OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS. THIS IS FROM 1v1s AT MUNERA PERSPECTIVE

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Recently, I saw Sagee and BlackStar’s videos on AO where they said that AO is being hurt by its own combat. While I might not agree entirely with their statement, they are right though, the combat’s learning curve is steep and unintuitive for new players, compared to grounded m1 based game like gpo and the rest of roblox. I think we can atleast that agree pre-awakening combat sucks. You don’t have your full kit and there’s no passive energy recharge.

I enjoy the game’s combat alot, it’s a mix of movement, quick and precise aiming, and using the right abilities at the right time/range. It’s fun, unique, and I always want to get better at it whenever I do 1v1s.

However its far from perfect, there are a few glaring issues:

  1. Projectile desync (it’s been the same issue from WoM, idk if vetex can switch it to serverside/clientsided). Hard to known if you need to parry or dodge a projectile if you can’t see where its going.
  2. Optimization. Randomly tanking in fps or ping whenever someone leaves or fights Calvus messes with combat alot. Some imbues/magics also create a ton of lag when used, further screwing up fights. (Sailor + Wind) I know vetex is working on this, but I can’t imagine how it is for people with bad pcs/internet.
  3. Power/Defense stat is way too strong and creates a gap between casual players and those w/ enchants and gems. It’s fair when both people have decent gear, but I’ve had fights where I just stat check an opponent because I have a perfect set. While this hurts progression, enchants/gems should be cheaper and easier to get (no xp grinding for perfect gems). Also, all gear should have power/defense as a main stat and then attack size/agility/ect. as a secondary stat.
  4. Important PvP balance changes are held until major updates. I understand that Vetex is a solo dev and huge changes like air charge rework requires testing and time to develop. However, stuff like pre-nerf pulsar and crystal warlock shouldn’t have been left unchecked for months. (Games will never be balanced, but blatantly overpowered combos/moves need to get fixed). He is getting better about it, but minor changes like reducing damage/size on magic/FS/weapons (and attack speed effecting shot range) could just be patched onto the game. (and they have)

Minor issues:

  1. Mage feels outdated compared to berseker/warrior/any hybrids. Your best move is still a single blast. It has no horizontal air moves, it desperately needs a reverse crash (one that sends you away from your opponent) or a flash move so you aren’t a sitting duck in the air. Mage has alot of endlag (even more for slow magics), and gets bullied by knife throw and rifles. You pretty much have to be a hardcore pvper from WoM to be good with mage. I might just hate zoners but mage isn’t really fun to play outside of pve.
  2. No separate bind for dodging and charging magic. (I use double tap, but I find myself accidentally dodging or not being able to dodge sometimes).
  3. M1s are useless and teach new players the wrong way to play the game.
  4. Terrain and fighting in water can be annoying. (rip if you have a heat magic) I understood heat magics not working in WoM because you are on a continent, BUT WHY FOR A SEA BASED GAME?? JUST GIVE IT A DAMAGE DEBUFF, WHY IS YOUR CRIPPLING WEAKNESS 80% OF THE MAP??? :sob: :joy:

I know I might be biased and parroting Aimsell’s pvp discussion video, but I wanted to hear what the forum thinks (even if its an echo chamber).

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There are flaws with AO. To say that it’s combat is perfect is wrong. To say it’s the best on Roblox is wrong. To say that it’s bad is wrong.
To say that it needs improvement is correct. There’s a good reason why the game is early access, and that’s its completely still in testing state.

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the balance of this game almost seems to be tapdancing with how many steps forward and backward they take

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Sagee4’s point about how having to adapt to the combat means the combat is bad is a pretty terrible take imo, there are arguments for the downsides of the combat system but it just being a “different” one that you have to adapt to isn’t a good one

I’ve never really cared much for pvp but I think some people are just too close-minded to roblox combat that isn’t what every other anime game uses. It definitely has its plethora of problems and it’s understandable to say it’s not good, but the majority of roblox players can’t really give developed criticisms on it other than it just not being what they’re used to.

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BlackStar’s AO criticism is absolutely garbage and should not be taken seriously. Never really saw Sagee’s vid, so I might check that out.

also, if i hear “the combat’s dated” one more time i’m going to explode (it’s a sequel to a game from a few years back-of course the combat is going to be similar)

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the combat’s dated

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Yeah, it does suck pre awakening tbh. It’s not that bad from my experience just leveling up builds with magic, but as I’ve never made a non magic build from the ground up, I can’t say if it’s any good before you awaken.

Definitely. I have 2 warlocks, 3 conjurers, a savant, and two mages. One of my warlocks was a mage, but I reset the stats cause I didn’t like it. One of my mages is on an alt account I haven’t touched in ages, so it’s not even max level either. I like magma mage, but mage in general feels really weird and difficult compared to even savant due to lack of movement.

Well, they aren’t THAT useless from some use cases I’ve seen, like boss grinding. But in pvp, they just hold you in place if you are airborne and are instantly countered by blocking and dodging, or even just being grabbed. Not to mention weapon m1’s suck ass. Like, if I spec my build towards being a master swordsman (i.e. warrior), and I fight a master martial artist (i.e. berserker), how come, even though I’ve put in the same amount of work as the martial artist, my freaking sharp metal sticks can’t do as much m1 damage as a dull bag of meat and bones? Same criticism I have with GPO, though it’s not as bad here since m1s aren’t really used often from my experience.

Lol, Vetex has made some questionable decisions hasn’t he?

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yeah, I might’ve overexaggerated how bad m1s are. They’re good for afk players and forcing people off the wheel on ships, but they don’t have enough range to be worth their ludicrous damage (Thermo’s m1 dps is crazy).

My main point was that they give the wrong expectations for combat to new players and teaches them to stay on the ground because the aerial m1s are so slow and lock you in place.

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This’ll be ramble but read if you want.

Honestly i just don’t think many people enjoy combat that has people zipping around and attacking from the air with huge aoe on attacks. While it IS fun, grounded M1 combat with some sort of stunlock and parry system has taken over ROBLOX fighting games due to popularity and how other games such as Deepwoken has been doing.

Kinda repeating a point you mentioned but not many players even outside of ROBLOX are willing to learn other forms of combat in other games. I’ve tried getting a friend into a Dragon Ball game on ROBLOX and he said it’s not good- mainly because it wasn’t like Deepwoken :skull:

All in all, people just want action and I don’t blame them. Game does need balancing ASAP, which are usually- if not always halted to be released with major updates as you said. :person_shrugging:

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personally i havent been facing this issue recently

thats pretty obvious. yeah, vetex is clearly trying to make the game playable for everyone by fixing the mem leaks, especially for those with lower end pcs (although i just gave up on my old one and built a new pc)

thats not true, the other stats are pretty viable too. high agility can help you dodge attacks alot more, atk speed can cut down on endlag and startup, atk size can help you guarantee hits, intensity helps boost the power of secondary effects, such as if youre a poison user for example.

theres a balancing team for pvp stuff but from what ive heard, they arent really cooperative amongst themselves. also vetex has been releasing smaller pvp fixes in the main game.

??? thats the point of mage. youre supposed to play mid-far ranged. and blast isnt its only unique move. you beams and placed explosions plus snare which is a grab move. mage does not need more mobility because its already stupidly good with how many moves it has.

theres a thing called “dodging method” in your settings. set it to shift :fr:

endgame pvp never uses m1s anyways, not even during midgame either. the m1s are just there for the earlygame because you have no other moves unlocked other than a blast in your magic and maybe some other basic moves if you put the points into them.

terrain breaking is part of the experience. cope ig? the sea and heat magic interactions is probably the only point i agree with.

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In my personal opinion the game will already be a master piece after dark sea, but for everyone elses sake it will be a game worthy to spend a decent amount of time on after nimbus because i think for most people dark sea would get boring for them after they max out their characters with whatever comes out in dark sea.

The movement combat nerfs to weapons and fighting styles is enough to keep me logged in atleast a couple times a week.

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I think Key explained the game’s combat pretty well in one of the comments on sagee’s video
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This is probably why the combat is so polarizing, this is the last thing you expect for a roblox rpg game.

I also don’t understand how people have the time to get into Deepwoken but not other games. The game is incredibly complex with all the builds you can get and the pvp has alot of reading and reacting to your opponent.

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Berserker staying really up close to you spamming really strong close range abilities with far better mobility says otherwise imo.

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pulsar spam, placed explosion spam. mage is already good for other reasons

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imo, in comparison to AA, it’s def a lot more fun atm. It’s just optimization issues (and Thermo Mosquitos) that’s bringing it down

I think it isn’t that steep to learn, but the reason why I think it feels so steep to learn is that they don’t know what to expect with AO combat. With grounded M1 pvp, there’s hella games with that combat, meaning they know what to expect and have experience with it

In AO’s case, there’s little games with similar PvP style, so there’s nothing to reference AO pvp with. Hell, I don’t even think AA and AR are similar to AO pvp anymore. Of course, it can just be people refusing to try and learn a new combat style like Kurumai said

I do respect people who can easily switch between Grounded and AO PvP and be good at each of em, like Surgee

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yeah its pretty ass sometimes

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Bro did you even read my post? Here’s more text.
“Power/Defense stat is way too strong”

Have you ever seen a genuine build without power/defense? You essentially double your health and damage, agility and other stats are secondary. While they are good, 80% of your equipment is going to be boss drops that have power/defense first, then attack size and other stats you want. My point was that casual/new players that don’t know about stats or don’t have time to grind for boss drops with enchants and gems will get crushed by those who do. (I had a friend who didn’t use any power equipment until calvus b/c he didn’t know that it increased his damage).

“Important PvP balance changes are held until major updates.”

I said that stuff like the mosquito nerf requires testing and time to develop. I also added that Vetex is getting better and has pushed out damage nerfs before updates. I was talking about Pulsar and Cleg warlock which both had insanely broken damage that could have been fixed with bandage patch that reduce their damage.

“Mage feels outdated compared to berseker/warrior/any hybrids. Your best move is still a single blast.”

You don’t have much variety in mage gameplay compared to other builds and hybrids which switch weapons and abilities on the fly depending on the situation. Aside from snare, mage hasn’t really changed much from WoM.

I admitted that I am biased, this is probably my weakest take out of them all. While I said blast is the best move, I didn’t mean it was the only good move. Beam and placed explosion were improved from WoM, but they deal below average damage and can only be used far away. While blast is effective at all ranges. Both self and placed explosion have a ton of endlag so you get punished by piercing shot or grabs. Snare is the most inconsistent grab and unlike all the other ones, it sets you in place to get punished hard. Pulsar while still potent, is no longer broken and you get out dps’d by Berserkers. Mage is at the bottom tier in most tier lists for a reason, it takes the most effort and requires the most aim out of every build to be good.

“No separate bind for dodging and charging magic.”

I might have mis-worded it but there’s no dedicated key for dodging, I’ve seen the setting. You either accidentally do it while trying to move (if you have double tap to dodge), or you accidentally do while trying to charge (if you have tap shift to dodge).

“M1s are useless and teach new players the wrong way to play the game.”

You are right about m1s being useful early game, I overexaggerated it

“Terrain and fighting in water can be annoying.”

You agreed with me on the optimization point :sob:
I didn’t really explain terrain well, I never really had much of an issue with destruction. However, I sometimes get stuck under grass in Ravenna or any place where the ground has layers. I put it here because I see alot of people complaining about it.

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I think the combat system is a mess.
This is the first game where I’ve played against other players and decided that the combat is far too slow AND far too fast simultaneously.
Some games suffer from being so slow its boring and other games suffer from being blindingly fast this game somehow manages to be both in the worst possible way.

Fights take ages to get through when other players are involved, attacking at all kills any momentum you have, and yet you’re always flying around the arena at mach 20 despite that.

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Bre those are always the main stats to any game(damage and health) plus th3 other stats are getting buffed next patch in gems also defense is getting nerfed on all boss drop armor sets.

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I don’t understand how other people’s matches last so long mine all ways last 2 to 5 minutes tops I’ve seen people go at it forever thoe missing a bunch of projectiles mainly tbh. My playstyle is pretty aggressive so it’s either I’m going to miss my shots and u take the dub quickly or I’m slugging u out of the game under 30 seconds. Other people run in and out of fights to much with sword skills and fighting styles but thats getting patched :+1: