Just as the title says.
No “ought” statements allowed.
I personally don’t believe there is, but I want to be certain of my conclusion. Goodness and its exultation (as it appears to me) is embedded within us due to the evolutionary advantage of holding such beliefs in a social setting. Empathy and sympathy allow us to ensure the overall survival of the group, and other ideas such as justice and fairness seem to ultimately stem from them.
Such traits are wonderful in a context in which we risk death or serious harm if we do not comply, but in the current world I live in I see no good reason to be a good person. I can ensure that my interpersonal relationships are maintained by simply being nice to them, but being nice to people who almost instantly reciprocate the favor is hardly what I would consider moral excellence. As for relationships outside my inner circle, I can simply put up a front or never expatiate on my beliefs and inclinations publicly.
The Golden Rule isn’t a reason, either. It’s a maxim, and it provides no actual reason for its message. I don’t believe in karma either, and I am of the opinion that simply thinking about life for more than 20 seconds is enough to destroy a belief in it.
There is no objective, universal law that says you should be a good person. However, if everyone decided to forget morality and people just started murdering their coworkers, society will collapse. In a way, morality is necessary for society to function.
Although I don’t think morality alone is responsible for the lack of co-worker killing sprees, I do agree with you. Morality is necessary for society to function.
This fact, however, can also be used to internally justify (or excuse) not being a good person. With the knowledge that everyone else is likely to adhere to the moral precepts of their society, one could simply not do so, trusting that others who DO adhere to said precepts will not provide much backlash if they aren’t too extreme about it.
Just murdering on a whim wouldn’t be a good example of this, seeing as there are severe consequences for doing so. One example I can think of is taking advantage of someone else’s kindness while knowing that the person will not neglect to offer said kindness because of THEIR moral precepts.
But with the knowledge of the fact that barely anyone is truly a bad person, you could in theory reap a lot more benefits than what you would if you were a “good” person.
Of course, all this comes with discretion. You can’t just be a dick at any opportunity unless you want to risk social exclusion.
Not to harp on an insignificant detail, but I wouldn’t really use the phrase “we’d all be the same as animals” seeing as a lot of animals demonstrate social behavior similar to those of human beings.
Maybe it’s just my morality flaring up, but I absolutely despise when people toss morality out the window and say there’s no point to it just because “it’s a social construct”.
Why should I be willing to make someone else’s day objectively worse if I have the chance for my benefit?
I can’t, and I won’t.
I just treat others how I want to be treated. I was told that when I was little and yes I know lessons like that are cringe.
But in the end they were right. If you treat someone like garbage, they are likely to return the favor.
Like you said down here ------V
and
Yeah the current world is going to shit, but i’m not going to accelerate that by being a shitty person.
If I decided to act like an asshole on the fourms right now cuz there’s actually no reason to be nice how do you think people would react? Of course people would start to dislike me and maybe some would even return the favor.
Sure there are times when being nice isn’t beneficial but heck humans are social creatures so being nice is definitely needed to socialize and keep society from going to shit.
Another thing to keep in mind is acting like an asshole won’t get you very far in life either considering school and jobs are a thing.
And I dunno if I’m the only one but tbh it feels great to do kind things to someone. It feels very rewarding sometimes.
I didn’t really say there’s no point to morality. It being a social construct is exactly its function. It encourages social cohesion, after all.
The lack of a true “reason” for doing something does not in my opinion solely invalidate it. The point of saying that morality is a social construct and nothing more is critical, in my opinion, for formulating a complete understanding of the world.
Phenomena such as karma and the just world hypothesis are a result of the “deification” of morality, and are used as fake justifications for being a good person. These are perfectly fine in principle, but become tricky when one tries to explain the unwarranted or undeserved cruelty that happens in the world. I’m not just referring to human beings, either - the mere consideration that the means by which a significant portion of life on earth is able to survive is the consumption and destruction of other life is another instance of this.
I don’t believe the current world is “going to shit”. Our increasing awareness of the happenings of the world simply allows us to view the bigger picture.
I define a good person as a person who goes out of their way to adhere to the moral standards that they extol, and is generally sympathetic and empathetic to all human beings.
By this definition, there is no proof that you being a not-so-good person would negatively impact the world as a whole. Evil does sometimes beget good, and this is due to the fact that “evil” and “good” are human labels in the first place. The world does not care about how evil or good the happenings within it are. Things just happen, and the actions that happen as a result of these things are not governed by forces of good or evil.
That depends on the recipients willingness or ability to return the favor. You are correct, though.
I don’t really understand why the mere action of downplaying the significance of morality would rub you the wrong way. It’s factual. Morality IS indeed a social construct, and ideas of good and evil would dissipate along with human life if we were to be wiped out by some cataclysm.
This does not mean you should stop being a good person, but that you should not deceive yourself into thinking the mere act of doing so exerts some supernatural force on the universe. It does not.
EDIT: Finished. I still don’t fully agree with you but I do see what you’re saying and where you stand.
I don’t. I know my good actions will turn to ash when I turn to ash, I just won’t want to be remembered as the guy with no morals. I have no intention on changing my ways either.
Maybe not as a whole yeah, but the people around me would have to suffer.
AHHH OK, that’s why reading this for the first time made me so mad, bc I thought you thought “if there isn’t a reason to being good why be good?” Now I see that’s not fully the case.
But even if there isn’t a definite reason, I will STILL attempt to treat others nicely, bc I also don’t have a reason to be a bad person. No one does.
this came from evolution?
somewhere along the line, humanity realized that if we become dicks, our species will collapse in on itself and decided to not be idiots.
Being a good person =/= not being an asshole. Not all the time, anyway. I am aware of the social benefits of being perceived as a “good person”, but what about in cases where no such social benefit is available?
With the revelation that there is no reason to be a “good person” in the forums, I find it more likely that most will just fuck around, not go out of their way to be as horrible as they possibly can. Those who do so usually have some mental problem of the sort. It’s a waste of effort to go out of your way to be mean to everyone. They might be mean to the odd person or two, but that might be
I personally don’t care how far anything will get me in life. I would definitely consider myself a “nice person” in school, but that’s mostly because I have no good reason to do anything else. Possibly also because of my childhood social conditioning.
I tend to not get close to people easily, and am almost certain that I am abnormal in my ability to cut off people from my life remarkably easily. I barely “miss” people. I am nice either reflexively or because I can’t be bothered to not do so.