My theory on why John Thorne is the "Apex of the world"

Pre Note: This is a theory, and I took info off of the QnA, ingame, and what vetex has said before about the story.

In the QnA, when asked what their favorite part of the Nimbus Sea Story was, they said:

This means we’ll see someone very powerful, who we might fight later in the story, and
I have a good Idea on who I think this is, based off of a lot of Ideas.

Some people think it’s going to be Wotan, which isn’t a bad idea given the current information game, but I feel that The Crown Prince of Thorns fits the role description better. If you think about the lore behind him, he was the person who “ruled an unknown domain on the other side of the Seven Seas” (probably the war seas), and also IS cannon in the story, as mentioned in the journal from Blasted Rock.

The story makes sense as well. He has the steel curse, making him a powerful threat, along with having at least one general with a curse (Avery Walker with the slash curse). He could also be an option as an Order of Asier high lord, with Avery walker and one of the “other leaders” that Maya mentions as Barons.

Given how far south the nation is, it would make sense that we would meet the Apex early, see them in most seas (or every sea past The Bronze Sea). He also seems like a guy who wouldn’t be messed with, given how in WoM lore he discovered the contient.

My final reason is that they said they couldn’t reveal the World of Magic ending until Ao ended, because it was similar. I’m no expert, but I don’t think Wotan and his sons were terrorizing Magius, but John Thorne the Prince of Thorns WAS around in World of magic, which makes an ending involving him realistic as an ending possibility for both, considering he was the discoverer of Magius in World of Magic lore, and he might be the “Apex of Power” in World of Magic.

I think that John Thorne has to at least be a decently large part of the story, given him being a re-occuring character from ALL 3 games, (he retired in the 6th sea of AA)it seems like they definitely had plans for him. This theory may have just evolved from my love for the Thorne Empire, but I think that The Crown Prince of Thorns is the Apex of power. but lets be honest, the real Apex of the world was the friends we made along the way.

Edit: The addition to Blasted Rock mentioned in the QnA might also be something Related to the Thorne Empire. (Thorne Empire vs Ravvenna was the battle of Cassia town.)


More info on why I don’t think it’s Wotan.

  1. We already know of him, and its said we’ll meet them. (so probably someone new)
  2. Jounthiem is in the Vimir sea, which seems early for the Apex to be located.
  3. He seems like a threat, but not a long term enemy.

What does Apex mean though?

Like strongest, or most powerful is how I’m taking it, and how I think they meant it.

Kinda similar to an “apex predator” which is essentially the top of the food chain, no one is stronger than him.

Im more leaning towards the apex being someone who hasnt been mentioned, nor someone we know exists yet. Plus I cant imagine the STEEL curse user to be the final bad guy, since thats kind of a lame and mid curse. Its more likely to be someone with an op curse like durza

I agree, steel curse isn’t a great option, but having someone entirely new also seems off.

oh look at that new bad guy he’s going to kill everybody Blasted rock was also said to be “Important to the Story” which could mean an introduction to the possible Apex?

Plus, a new person has no known similarity to what would have been the World of Magic ending.

pretty sure he was only supposed to get the steel curse after the events of AA

I dont remember that. Could you try and find a source saying that?

I just want to make sure before trying to get a new idea!

the part where the steel curse was literally floating around above that one arena place

also PK gave the curse to John Thorne

John throne no where gonna be the strongest of the world gr…
We will meet the true god of the world, the mistwalker, the kingslayer, the dark flames call forth.

OHHH yeah thats true.

I dont have a way to counter that argument well. Maybe they changed something (I doubt it). Ill find a way for it to be possible just give me some time.

it’d be funny if it wasn’t a person
maybe just a very cool event
maybe the sky islands start falling down or there’s a giant fleet that you have to defeat or maybe both

also I don’t think that this “apex of the world” has much to do with the thing mentioned about WoM’s story. If it’s truly something that cool, it’d probably happen a bit later in the story than the ending of the second sea


I think we’d probably meet of learn about the Apex early on, but not actually encounter them in combat until much later.

he will have the steel curse, as of now he doesnt ( he isnt even in war seas rn iirc )

Maybe by the time we make it to Thorne Empire, he’s back with the curse, but when we meet him in the Nimbus sea, he still hasn’t gotten it yet? We know hes been around a while because of the Battle of Cassia town, so maybe hes already gotten it, and come back instead.

PK was the one who gave him the curse

they havent even gotten the absorption curse yet so giving him the steel curse is impossible

also if, lets say, PK somehow got he absorb curse already and somehow gave John his curse

why would he go back to war seas? he basically crossed the dark sea to there

i personally think that the current ruler of the Thorne Empire is a different guy and we probably wont meet John

wow wow WOW so rude

Isn’t the dark sea made from the battle with Durza? so wouldn’t it not be too much of a stretch to say that by the late AO story he’s got the curse?

I might be wrong so please correct me if so.

it is a by-product indeed

possibly, AO spans across 3 years and maybe PK will be done with their curse hunting by then and trust John enough to give him the curse

problem is, PK trusts him

why would the Peacekeeper trusts the guy who will become the antagonist of AO?

beside, my previous point still stand, he is at Seven Seas and is unlikely to return to War Seas unless something urgent come up. Even then, how would he even know that?

We might not meet him in his full force until final sea. Assuming the Thorne Empire is in the final sea, it gives a lot of time for him to get the curse. If the player does something to piss off the Thorne empire while trying to stop the Keraxe war (say helping Gual Terveri with the Cernuno storyline, or fighting Avery walker if she has some kind of disadvantage), John Thorne might come back to kill us, if we mess with his nation. Or the Dark Sea posseses him, or he comes back on vacation, and then hates us like everyone in the story seems to.