Poison Rebalance

another poison suggestion, yay

Impact Damage
  • essentially, as of right now, DOT and cloud included,
    the overall damage of poison is far lower than even low damaging magic.
    according to meta’s guide,
    image
    which means,
    that light/lightning/wind/other fast magic have greater impact damage despite being far faster.

  • Now, taking impact damage into account, isn’t the speed of the magic too slow?
    All other magics with impact damage this low, excluding ash, are all incredibly fast in comparison.

  • Considering the DOT only accounts for the damage of any given one blast over 20 seconds,
    other magic, even with lower impact damages, fast/lowimpact magic are able to vastly outstrip the damage done by poison, clouds and DOT included,
    whilst still having far higher speed.

DOT
  • now if my information is correct,
    poison dot is 100% of the move that procs poison over 20 seconds.
    while this might not seem terrible initially, it goes for over 20 seconds.
    meaning, within that 20 second period, you only get the value of one blast as damage.

  • by all means, within the scope of pvp and combat,
    twenty seconds is a huge amount of time. In any real fight, you’ll definitely hit or be hit within that timeframe.
    as the DOT only accounts for roughly one blast, all it serves is to negate regen, and does not do any real damage.
    given one of those is a blast, doesn’t that invalidate the usefulness of the dot?

  • additionally,
    if you hit with a beam, explosion, or multi-blast, or any lower-damage move,
    (or if you don’t have a power/glass cannon build)
    the DOT damage is significantly reduced, and cannot be proced for 20 seconds,
    essentially making poison a slower magic with shitty impact damage with hardly any dot.

also, take acid as an example, acid dot is 50% of the attack over 10 seconds,
since means in just 10 seconds, they can proc again, and in addition to higher impact damage, do more damage even including dot

Clouds
  • Sure, the clouds are cool, but they don’t do much.
    Last I checked, the cloud damage per tick is only around 17-19.
    Now, typically, in a fight, a player will only take one or two ticks of cloud damage before quickly escaping
    You can’t find a serious player who will tell you they died because of player poison clouds.
    While they do serve as area deprivation, the actual utility of poison clouds is low.

The damage of clouds is too low to serve any real point,
almost all players have over 600 hp now, and that isn’t even bringing up builds with defense.
given they only do 19 damage, they don’t make up for the incredibly low impact damage.

  • Light magic is supposed to have its attacks absorbed by poison clouds.
    However, due to beam and explosion spells, as well as it just not working half the time, this advantage is useless.
    And while light magic supposedly has a disadvantage against poison, other magics like fire/plasma/wind all have positive effects against poison clouds, despite the poison clouds hardly functioning to begin with.
Potential Solutions
  • Raise the impact damage of poison, even decrease the DOT if needed, similarly to acid.
  • Make the clouds do more damage/proc more significant poison damage themselves.
  • Make poison faster to compensate
  • Make the DOT rate consistent, such as weaker attacks doing similar DOT to stronger attacks.
  • Make hits add to the duration of DOT, while still capping at a certain amount of time.
  • DOT automatically cancels natural regeneration, so the DOT is actually effective as damage.
  • DOT can be overridden by stronger hits (therefore granting a higher dot)
  • Cloud damage affected by power stat
  • Make clouds even bigger, along the lines of ash at 1.25x
  • Allow clouds to proc the DOT value of what created the cloud
  • More horizontal clouds, as area deprivation in the y axis is fairly useless, making poison lack compared to acid/magma area deprivation wise.

thanks, please read everything in here before replying
feel free to add comments/suggestions/or just stuff for me to add

toodles.

edit: acid-poison comparison

lets compare poison to acid
acid has 50% of the impact damage over 10 seconds
and 0.90x impact damage
makes puddles (similar damage to clouds)

meanwhile, poison is 100% of impact damage over 20 seconds
and 0.75x impact damage.
makes clouds (similar damage to puddles)

now hypothetically, if the raw undivided damage was 100
poison would do 75 automatically, and acid would do 90.
now, factoring in dot
poison would therefore do 150 damage over 20 seconds off that first blast
while acid would do 135 in ten seconds.
now, taking this into account, acid could proc that dot again after only ten seconds,
a significantly shorter time, in addition to already higher base damage.
now, given acid’s cd is only 10 seconds, doesn’t that mean it can effectively pull off higher dot in addition to more impact damage than poison?
in addition to the effect being faster, which means more immediate damage is done.
acid even has puddles that do similar damage to poison clouds

Acid is also, just as fast as poison, and is only slightly smaller (0.1x) by default.
and by clashes, acid beats heat related magics, and even destroys poison clouds on contact

this is pretty unbalanced in comparison given they are both same-speed dot oriented magic

Poison doesn’t need a buff bruh. I like how people are trying to buff already good magics instead of buffing shit like snow, crystal, and (maybe) earth.

while I agree those still need buffs too
and I’m assuming you meant “doesn’t need a buff bruh” instead of nerf

poison still lacking rn bro
could you tell me why you think its fine as is

1 Like

Clouds are heavily underestimated, Destroys all projectile weps other than oathkeeper through clouds. Eats light magic and the poison clouds tick every half a second so if you get someone caught using an oathkeeper/Vastira/3 blast or any high endlag move, they will take a shit ton more damage than any other magic can deal including (to an extent) gold(ash is an exception as it’s literally the same thing). 1x speed is a really good spot to be in because .8 and below is when it becomes easier for reaction time to kick in instead of pure prediction(i.e. Casting speed lightning build). So it’s speed is just fine for having a unique trait. Also clouds are clientsided so you’re missing them on your screen if they “aren’t working”. Even with all this, I’d take Ash over it tbh for the dps. Doesn’t make Poison a bad magic

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Yo dragon what the actually fuck.

Poison is beyond op, and the clouds tick for SO MUCH when you cast a move in them

Poison already got a slight nerf with the sizes

:3

and while they are using those endlag moves, you’ll be taking damage too…
and way more than them to boot…
large clouds are nearly impossible to set up in pvp

@DoubleRun thats hardly consistent, people typically move straight out of clouds before casting.
and at most, you’ll only get the damage of a single full power build blast in from that, whilst if they are casting on you, they could easily do more than that consistently, considering every other magic has higher impact.

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According to my calculations, there are so many situations in PvP where the clouds get at least 50 damage on you…

Me and level both agree that the clouds are op.

And let’s not forget that the longer the fight lasts, the more powerful a poison user is

2 Likes

I feel like the issues apply more to Ash than Poison since Poison’s gimmick is more than enough to compensate

I agree with crystal and snow buffs, earth is crazy good now due to size, and clash ratings

Poison does not need a buff, yall trippin

1 Like

I’d only take more if they hit 1 more shot that I do at the same blast amount so I’ll do more damage thank you.

Ok so I get area control and stopping regen while I still have passive regen, sounds pretty pog. It sounds like more of an issue of you not fighting pvpers that can actually aim than poison being bad

@macobre however, ash has more impact damage, which effectively fixes the issues i’m bringing up.
poison loses that damage heavily with the lowered impact damage/low dot
currently, ash is objectively better.

@August howso, explain

You keep asking to explain and ignore cloud’s existence with “they’ll never hit”. Who’s fault is it that they aren’t hitting?(Especially since clouds are client side)

  1. Clouds, 2. DOT. 1. If you’re doing damage trades, someone uses poison blast, it 1. Does impact damage, 2. Deals damage to you because you’re in the cloud, 3. You take additional 20 seconds of DOT after leaving cloud. 2. The DOT on poison is insane to make up for its impact damage, its DOT can only be cleared by 1 magic, overall poison’s main gimmick is its 3 types of damage, Impact, Clouds, and DOT after impact.

Lmao, but overall the damage is still greater no matter how you put it. One of the reasons Fire + Plasma are good is, along with their speed, the DoT, which Ash don’t have but Poison sure do.

Ash is slower, objectively weaker damage-wise, and has generally worse interactions. You trippin’

@Level whether someone stays in a cloud or not isn’t up to you lmao
doesn’t matter if you have the best god darned aim or client if they just step out of it

@August read the OP more carefully, I already explained the issues with impact damage.

When you’re trading hits mid air or on the ground, you’ll likely stay in the poison cloud for 1-2 seconds taking extra damage, which honestly adds to the overall damage of poison, and after you leave those clouds, you get a 20 second DOT

Which is entirely invalidated by Poison’s ridiculous DoT and third method of damage