Push non-party members off living ships

Push non-party members off living ships https://forum.arcaneodyssey.dev/uploads/default/original/3X/7/a/7af08f36ebb0a231107c2cfa3e14d178f0537ef5.png
effort 4.333333333333333 6 quality 4.0 6 reasonability 4.333333333333333 6

Proposal

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Basically, port this change over for player ships for people that aren’t in your party. The system already exists for miniboss ships so this should be easy.

Details/background on your proposal

When you’re standing on your own ship, it should be more difficult for people to kill you. Right now there’s no reason to engage in ship pvp because the “pvp” boils down to boarding the other guy’s ship and attacking them.

In addition to other people being thrown off your ship, you should gain a 50% damage resistance to all attacks originating off of your ship and a 75% resistance to knockback (to help further incentivize people to actually sink your ship before they can fight you)

The only exception to this rule is if someone just sunk your ship- any ship that had an involvement in sinking your ship is exempt from this rule specifically for you. This is to prevent tactical disadvantages out at sea. (Since if this wasn’t a thing, the attacker would be able to camp on their own ship for the damage resistance)

Reason to add/change

This change would serve to make ship pvp actually a requirement instead of just being “board the other guy’s ship and nuke them”

5 Likes

YES.

This should probably be some deckhand ability instead.

yea there is really no reason to actually sink someone’s ship other than to annoy them when they arent around

Before this, can we please separate the movement allocations and the combat allocations completely?
If you warship a sailcloth, then it ruins the defense. I’m thinking that things like Speed and Turning and Weather Resistance should be completely separated from the combat stuff.

Everybody wants to go fast, but if ship combat becomes more mandatory, then you’re gonna need both, and having to decide between just one is rough. It wouldn’t be completely gone though, because turning is still a lot better in combat than overall speed.

2 Likes

Okay I get stability and resilience, but like, the point of warship is to grant massive buffs in 1 area while sacrificing another. If you don’t want to sacrifice stats, then run t2 stat enchants. Besides, speed is good in ship combat if since it makes it harder for other players to hit you and might fuck with the prediction on npc ships or at least lets you get out of cannon/mortar range quicker after an exchange and lets you dodge some cannon shots since it’s hard to predict the right times to fire at a speedy ship.

Besides warship on a sailcloth is the hardest to off-set with deckhands, just go hull warship and speed deckhands. You need like, 4 max defense legendary deckhands to off-set the cost of warship sailcloth’s. Meanwhile for some fucking reason 1 legendary speed deckhand is all you need to off-set the warship penalty for hulls.

Okay but hear me out, sacrifice something in the field of movement if you’re warshipping something under movement. Sacrifice something in the field of combat if you’re warshipping something under combat.

1 Like

Uh oh

that’d be like sacrificing AP for insane amounts of Power or Resistance for insane amounts of Defense.

Besides if you made it so warship reduced turning them you would physically be unable to control ships and it’d make the sail speed absolutely hellish as you would only be able to sail in a straight line at like 500 mph into some random level 50’s sailboat and if you made hull reduce weapon damage then wow you end up with the ship equivalent of vitality builds before mistral and if it reduced ram defense then it’d be busted since ram defense is fucking useless.

On the flip side if you reverse it you end up with turning warship being dogshit since wow you can spin fast but good luck getting fucking anywhere and you just turn into a glass cannon for hull warships.

How would you even balance cannons / siege weps / rams, because if hull has to reduce all of their damage, do all 3 just nerf each other and the hull and massively buff itself? That doesn’t sound fun. “wow I got this scroll and put on my cannons, now everything else I have sucks.”

Like how it stands right now 3/5 (the weapons) make themselves massively powerful at the cost of drawbacks while the other 2/5 (the ship itself) are opposites of each other. That’s fair, play around what you warshipped on your ship, or off-set it with other means. If a sailcloth warship and a hull warship came to blows, they’d play much differently but the sailcloth could still win if they use their speed to their advantage while the hull could punish the sailcloth’s mistakes.

The only thing that makes durability suck when sacrificed for movement is people just jumping on the ship, remove that and the fight gets fairer, but it’d need some tweaks, no doubt.

Then we could completely rework warship somehow, idk.
I just don’t want to have to decide between getting around and fighting.

you can’t rework warship without just outright ruining the point of it, just use t2 enchants if you don’t want to choose atp

Bruh.

I will say, it’s nice when random players jump on to fix damaged ships, but there’s still the greater benefit of protection from this.

idk how i feel about this, encouraging to sink the ship first is really good but having a literal invisible wall at all time around your ship all the time is really not intuitive. like to any oblivious player seeing this it just feels like a bug or a dumb gameplay decision
at best id accept if the ship had to have been sailing for… a couple seconds maybe.

also the damage resistance part is unnecessary imo, if you are sailing then nobody should really be able to hit you enough to kill you unless you were very low on health, and if you were then you shouldnt be allowed to cheese your way out of combat like that

1 Like

I personally think it should occur if you are hunting the other person, since theres like no reason to be forced off of it otherwise that I can think of other than stowaways but I mean who cares

Intro

I brainstormed on this concept and I really like it since it has potential from where it is now. (and no i didn’t use chatgpt, i just thought and expanded off it with experience)

This has a bunch of possible concepts so I’d really appreciate it if someone were to repost this as an actual post than it existing in a comment (idk how and don’t wanna).

For a simple suggestions, I’d reduce the base damage resistance to 25% and a 30% resistance to kb.

For a more complex change to expand on this concept, i’d first adjust the starter buff to a 10% damage reduction and a 20% kb reduction.

  • To balance this out, i’d introduce customization to the buff items as new boat items: both to strengthen the buff as more investments go in the ship, and freedom to adjust the effects.

First

So firstly, I support reducing the base buff to 10% damage reduction and 20% kb reduction in order to open the possibilities to boarding/ambushes in the first place.

  • I say this as boarding/ambushing people on ships is a real life strategy (source: it probably happened).
  • As a result, keeping the buffs strong enough purely for the purpose of shutting down the possibility of an on boat battle is like not acknowledging the existence of boarding a ship like it never existed in the first place.
  • It’s like a ship game but pirate ambushes just simply don’t exist, and the existence of a crippling chain shot is questionable as it synergizes more towards the goal of catching up to board.

The original buffs make the user functionally immortal, so keeping the buffs low gives an opportunity to boarding ship playstyles: ships specifically built to be fast and a better purpose to use crippling-themed cannonballs.

  • Additionally, it’d open up the niche/off-meta possibility of using lower level ships to chase/swarm a bigger boat.
  • I can picture a situation where a warship with 1 very strong guy gets swarmed by a cluster of smaller sailboats who all board the ship at the same time.
  • I believe this would fit very well into the game (assuming that smaller ships are faster and larger ships)

Second

Now by itself, 10% damage reduction is still very bad. To balance this out and add in a few more ideas, the buff should have both the freedom to customize and the option to invest as it’d benefit the diversity and control in both PvE and PvP.

The user’s ship is like their mobile fortress, so adding a buff would grant the user a higher degree of control over their domain.

  • As of now, the ship does not have a noticeable presence to both the game and the user themselves, even as the captain.
  • The only customizable ship aspects that announce a creative expressionism are the sails, figurehead, paint, light source, and the crew member vanity, all of which have 0 noticeable impact. Name one time you’ve passed by a ship and remembered one of those.
  • Adding a customizable buff not only grants a noticeable presence to the ship in the form of an advantage, but gives the user a comforting degree of control on what they get to do.
  • For example, whether they choose to have a higher regen, slightly more damage, slightly higher speed or mana regen, the choices are endless; all of which have a noticeable impact compared to the negligible sail or the afk crewmembers.
  • Additionally if the buff starts out weak, then allowing the chance for it to grow in power gives a better sense of investment as the ship grows.
  • In conclusion, adding a customizable buff will be a very nice aspect to the PvE experience as an key quality of life feature.

From a user standpoint, there’s honestly not much to do with the ship, especially in PvP where anything about the ship barely matters in an actual fight.

  • A customizable buff will benefit and reward the options in battle in 2 main ways: the class build, and the playstyle build.
  • The class build is the customization of a user’s stats, like Power, Defense, Agility, and more.
  • The playstyle build is the customization of the user’s options in battle, whether they go more aggressively, defensively, dodge this or defend that.
  • For example, a speed buff will benefit a glass cannon build; one who wants to unleash decisive killer attack, a gel-like buff will benefit an attrition build; one who wears down and outmaneuvers the enemy, and a classic defense or power build will fit almost every class like a tank or generalist.
  • Because the buff is probably localized to the boat, this will introduce a plethora of new opportunities.
  • For example, one playstyle can simply be to stay on the boat; a defensive, reactive playstyle where being the first one to attack requires risk and preparation.
  • Another playstyle can playstyle can be to play alongside the boat; to oppress and suffocate the enemy by keeping the ship to move along the flow of battle, or to cut off an escape route like a mobile fortress.
  • In conclusion, adding a customizable buff would widen the possibilities of a battle by incentivizing the role of a ship in a battle to improve possible builds, playstyles, and even the planning of a situation for both the defender and attacker wherever they find themselves in, whether ambushed at a city or in the middle of the ocean.

Third

Some potential problems I can think of a boat buff are how would it work and how could it be abused. Here are some live action ramblings:

  • The boat buff would have to extend a bit past the boat, or else the buff would constantly and spontaneously appear and disappear.
  • Even with a range extension, I really hate the idea of a buff just being activated and deactivated in rapid succession, so there’d probably have to be a duration.
  • Logically, being on the boat should have an infinite duration, but leaving the boat shouldn’t.
  • If approaching the buff radius refreshes the duration, there’s a chance that people would be in the middle of fighting but quickly dash in and out just in range to get that extra buff, something I don’t like.
  • One idea could be to have a radius, but you’d have to stay next to the buff radius for a certain amount of time for it to apply, like 10 seconds. This would make approaching the ship for a quick buff less abusable and more as an integrated risky playstyle.
  • If the duration is too long, there’s a chance that the enemy aggressor will pull in close enough to quickly engage a fight while the buff lasts, which would be unfair.
  • This can probably be solved by either making the duration very short but infinite in the boat radius, or having the buff deactivate by some unknown requirement, perhaps by approaching another boat?
  • Another possibility is that durations are twice as long while out of combat, but are immediately removed when combat is activated.
  • This way, the aggressor will lose their buff if they intended to prolong and engage with it, while the defender would keep their buff as they’d be on their ship.
  • There would still be the problem of the aggressor then dashing back for the buff, although then they’d need to stay within the buff radius for 10 seconds as a penalty.
  • If two ships are right next to each other, I suppose each would have their buffs apply to the respective players.
  • This would benefit sluggish but powerful ships using the oppressive playstyle to maneuver their ship as a walking advantage, which would also require some complicated ship parking and timing.

Here are the refocused better ramblings:

  • There has to be an advantage to someone being on their ship and someone not being on their ship, since one random enemy dashing towards your ship and fighting on equal terms is just strange.
  • To combat this, the defender will gain a buff while the aggressor won’t. This will incentivize sinking the enemy ship to deactivate their buff beforehand.
  • If two people are fighting but keep their ships parked nearby for the intent of refreshing the buff, then staying in the buff radius for a prolonged time is more risky and cumbersome as it reduces the range of movement for the user, benefiting enemies to predict where they will be next or AoE/lingering attacks.
  • If two huge ships are fighting in the ocean, then one possibility is to physically bring the ship close enough for an on boat battle, with both boats serving as the arena.
  • If that were to occur, then it’d technically be equal grounds for each person so either each person has a buff or doesn’t if the presence of both attacker’s boats are nearby.
  • If a slow boat got ambushed by a speedy boat, then the defender would have to have a buff as the aggressor is choosing their battles.
  • Because the aggressor decided to bring their speedy boat, then they should be rewarded compared to a person who swims to the other boat.
  • Therefore, both people have their buffs, but the aggressor has a slightly weaker buff adjusted to a speedy boat, compared to the slower fortress boat incapable of ambushing a speedy boat.

Fourth

I using by Conceptualizer profession, I conceptualized a couple of possibilities
A few ideas I can think of for the form of the buff include: Rune Engravings, Buff Siege Weapons, fitting Tailored Modifications and Potion Type: Incense.

Rune Engravings

  • I just added this since it makes sense to engrave ships with runes.
  • Runes give the vibe of something hardy and immovable, yet simplistic like a rock.
  • Therefore, the buffs can reflect very simple single Stat buffs.
  • This also has the theme of those Stat amulets and Jeweling gems, so there could be a Ship Buff Item like Arcane Gem Projector which takes amulets or gems and turns them into a Ship Buff.

Buff Siege Weapons

  • Probably some sort of thing where on activation, apply heavy buffs to the user or around the ship.
  • This can take the form of a buff applying shockwave or a passive buff aura
  • I think this should be separate from the Ship Buff Slot, as the Siege Weapon determines a ship playstyle like a Mortar so taking a Buff Siege Weapon means your ship has less weapon options.

Tailored Modifications

  • The only thing I could think of are those scenes in media where a guy on a ship uses the ropes to their advantage, like swinging across or climbing up them.
  • Therefore, I thought of Tangling Ropes = speed/agility improvement, a simple suggestion.

Potion Type: Incense

  • This would definitely be related to potion crafting.
  • However, I really don’t like the idea of having Incenses be TEMPORARY, as potions are not long lasting.
  • Additionally, people would just mass produce them and slap them on their ship, an idea I hate.
  • Therefore, I’d support the crafting of an Incense Stick item, and a separate Ship Buff Slot for a Brazier that can be interacted with to apply a buff upon SELECTING an Incense Stick in the inventory without consuming it.
  • Additionally, I DO NOT support the idea of a Madness inducing Incense, cause I don’t want to play the game with distractions and nausea.
  • There could also be different types, like a hazy variant where it increases the tolerance for leaving the ship at the expense of a weaker effect, or some other type that incentivizes staying next to the ship.
  • For context I used Minecraft Bewitchment Mod as reference/inspiration (idk if incense and braziers are related)

Snack Bar = stamina/regen/base stat improvement

  • This might fit as it’s like food but on demand cause it’s a snack bar.
  • Maybe you’d quickly take a bite during a fight, so it’d justify this lol.
  • The main thing I like about this is that it’s related to craftable foods, so it can scale with food crafted in some way.
1 Like

Vetex has a plan in mind for improving ship combat, as hinted in the official account’s tweet. So I don’t know how to feel about this one without having to see what he has for it.

On one hand, now I can’t murder the enemy(‘s ship) with a smash x fist technique anymore
On the other hand, I’m not killed by dagger stabs anymore when I’m just trying to enjoy the game and someone boards my ship

i think we really only need the damage reduction part and thats WHILE we pilot our own ship. that way we can still jump up from the steering wheel and still fight them. the other stuff on top is just extra

1 Like

I agree with the sentiment but this would be bad execution, simply getting those 2 buffs out of nowhere is a forced and inelegant way to give you the advantage on your ship,

which btw, you already do have an advantage, you’re the one who decides when your ship moves and stops, everytime someone boards my ship i wait until they cast a spell and get my ship moving leaving them stranded, or i just snare them away.

A better option would be to have your crew cast some type of push spell once every X seconds