PVP talk and crying

Game Discussion
21

I see loads of pvers doing exactly that. Anyways speaking of beams theyre actually pretty good for pve too. And placed explosions are only used half as much in pvp compared to blasts and beams so who cares about those

22

that’s not the problem, the problem is the mixing of pve and pvp (deckhands), and then also having “removing” the things people can do to fight against forced pvp

23

i’m not complaining about the update as a whole, i was literally only complaining about that one things where pve players just get less chances of avoiding pvp that they just don’t want to partake in.

24

Oh, vetex is already planning on reworking it, it’s only a matter of when it’s happening

Since you have patreon access, you can probably remind vetex in patreon chat, he’s pretty friendly and talkative with patreon supporters apparently, even leaking exclusive that isnt on the patreon page

25

i know, it’s just that we don’t really have any info on if the deckhand rework is coming with the dark sea, but we are getting our pvp block potion really nerfed.

if deckhand rework is dark sea then cool, but i somewhat doubt that.

26

but it still exists, along with a lot of other potions you can use to avoid encounters

1 Like
27

If you don’t want to be hunted just keep your renown low, I do that and it works

Sure it means you won’t get deckhands but it saves you from a majority of gankers who do it for the renown or bounty

1 Like
28

Smart person :pray:

29

You said the game was becoming more pvp focussed over 1 change. Anyways this isnt even really relevant to the argument so ill just drop it

30

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31

I’ve clocked 100 hours in my main and i still don’t have any deckhands lol, it’s not a big deal if you don’t have them, my ship is still great for naval combat

32

@Crimsonpants has been typing for like 20 min now
bros gonna drop a whole book on us :sob:

33

Yeah i honestly wanna see it.

34

Where a lot of this contention comes from, I believe, is that PVP probably feels more ‘complete’. All the PVE activities in AO are constantly evolving and changing- almost none of them as presented are final. We don’t have the complete picture for how these features are actually planned out. Hell even the fishing/shovel progression just dipped its toes into what the full feature would look like.

Once you complete your build, there are no real, long term goals to pursue on the PVE side, no lofty titles (outside master angler which only the most absurd people would shoot for legitimately). Dark Sea is supposed to be the great equalizer- but like all things, its not finished. It won’t have dark sea diving, and the level scaling of the dark sea is only really balanced for the first two ranges (meaning going beyond the first two ranges just leads to repeat content when in the future there will likely be grander threats and finds deeper in).

So what does that really leave? What’s a long term goal in AO? Well, renown & clans are basically it- and those are pvp. Now Renown, I’ll put my foot down. It’s a pvp leaderboard, it’s for pvp players. Detach deckhands from it- sure, but it has always and should always be for pvp players. Clans on the other hand is a different story.

AO is building a sort of community game, and clans/guilds are HUGE parts of ANY MMO game. Yet, they are basically only for pvp players. Coupled with a recent ‘witch hunting’ rule change that almost went through (IF you didn’t see it, if you weren’t a solo player with no clan and no renown, you could legally be witch hunted if those rule changes went through), you can see why some players are under the impression that there is a MASSIVE pivot towards catering to PVP players.

I’ll complain ALL DAY about Clans being constricted to PVP players- because a game like this encourages you to find community. When you aren’t satisfied with playing on your own anymore- with the coming of raid bosses and the difficulty of the dark sea, community will be important. Yet, clans as they are designed are fundamentally anti casual. Not gonna make this ‘book’ any longer on that note though haha. (Though I can elaborate on this)

In short, AO’s big problems can come from both it being incomplete, but also scope. By design, you mix all kinds of people in the game. Pure PVE players who would never hunt another human being if you held a gun to their head and PVP fiends who wait at Cirrus to gank low levels for fun- and everyone in between. When you mix them into an open world, the pvp fiends are always going to be on top. Your fun is at their whims. Maybe you’ll get to fish in peace, maybe someone is bored out of their mind and will decide to kill you for fun, and that can be understandably frustrating.

Love potions were supposed to essentially be the great ‘balancing point’, but PVP players pushed back HARD because in their circle, love potions are a silly addition. For a PVE player, love potions were great, an amazing addition to let you keep having fun your way and telling pvp players to fuck off. Yet in the pvp circle it just led to more toxicity of people at the high end basically putting a big stop sign in your face if you want to hunt them.

It’s a balancing act that would take a LOT of work to get right. The game leans heavy to PVP right now just because pvp is the only (currently) infinitely replayable area. Elysium is adding raid bosses down the line- which is a GREAT thing, and I think people should be grateful that long-term PVE player goals are being thought of, but I hope everyone on the pvp side can understand from this essay why PVE and PVP players butt heads so often. We’re all sharing the same playpen but some kids who already have good toys get to use their toys to smash the other kids sandcastles, and thats just the way it goes for now.

Have faith and patience, Vetex is one guy- he knows its not just PVP players who love AO, but he can only focus on one thing at a time.

Fear my ability to conjure unnecessarily long essays out of thin fucking air.

8 Likes
35

very well written book (:sob:) youve got there
and honestly at a glance i agree with most of the stuff you said. But i gtg eat dinner so ill respond properly in like 45 min

36

i’d like to add onto this; the infamy changes were dumb
there should be more pve ways to gain infamy, but now you can claim an island and grind sealed chests for an hour only for the progress to be undone if someone kills you once

37

wild argument but pvp is fun and ur on kos kid

38

Wanna add my two cent to this conversation.

Given the Opportunity, Players Will Optimize the Fun Out of a Game

That quote is how I would describe the nature of online RPG games. You never felt enough so long you can get more.

Both hardcore PvE and PvP players always want to perform better in game by adding more damage/ability to your build and weapons

Deckhand and upgrading them for now is locked in a system that is made for PvP, but considering they can PvE their way to get that high fame to make their ship slightly faster, they will keep doing it anyway.

And with The Dark Sea update going to make ship stat a high priority to access more late game PvE content. This is where the PvE VS PvP players clash.

39

honestly thats a fair argument. Thing is that this entire update is pve focussed minus some minor stuff so i dont get how both crimson and jeff can nitpick something so minor when theres lots of pve content being added, especially when there are lots of ways to avoid pvp already (potions, staying away from ravenna, munera & silverhold and lowering your renown)

Also the game is still in early access so the lack of pve content is to be expected. The game is afterall pve focussed so theres lots of pve stuff gonna be added. On top of that the reason why pvp feels more complete than pve is cuz everything pve related can be used in pvp too so unless you consider that an issue (tf???) then you really shouldnt complain about pvp feeling more completed, cuz how tf is vetex ever gonna fix that :sob:.

lack of content again, which is being adressed in this update. Ofc the dark sea cant fix every lacking pve feature but it will def help.

glad we agree on this. Luckily a deckhand rework was proposed pretty recently by Artanaris so hopefully it gets added this update.

i dont need to quote the next 2 paragraphs of your essay since theyre both clan related so ill just talk about clans from here on out. Also i wont argue with you about clans either cuz honestly youre spot on about the issue so ive got nothing to disagree with lol.
But ye, clans are a big issue. Imo there should be a distinction between pvp and pve clans. Pve clans would be more focussed on the building aspects of clans while pvp clans would ofc focus more on the pvping side of things.

Alr but here comes the stuff i do disagree with, and this is coming from a pretty casual player (i barely pvp and mostly trade or pve afterall). There are many ways a pve player can avoid pvp, some of which i mentioned in my first paragraph already. On top of that pve players should def be able to obtain high tier love potion reagents so if you were to just make higher tier love gels youd be fine. Instead of complaining about this small change it would be better to complain about renown and infamy. Rking doesnt happen too much and is easily avoidable too if you simply keep away from part of the map (ravenna, munera and silverhold)

To sum all of this up: while i do agree with most of what you said, the issue of overreacting about the change to love potions is def still something i disagree with. If done right a pve player should be able to avoid 90% of pvp while only really losing out on deckhands (hopefully the deckhand rework gets added this update). Complaining about 1 feature for pvpers when the entire update is made for pvers is just ridiculous. It would simply be better to complain about renown and infamy instead of "love potions arent my 0 effort no pvp cheatcode anymore :cry: "

1 Like
40

Well too bad, they made the drinkable potion to ignore love potions