Rework Of Sub Stat Formulas

Suggestions
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Rework Of Sub Stat Formulas
effort 4.5 2 quality 4.0 2 reasonability 2.75 4
1

Alr so balance cord told me go here idk if this is where i put this but I’ll put here.

Substats being changed to be linear.

All substats should be made linear and there can be a couple ways. starting with the universal changes

Agility: could stay as it is OR could directly increase stud amount traveled. For walkspeed/runspeed it would have to be a fraction of a stud. For dashes/t jumps it could possibly be 1-1 or 3-1.

Intensity: if the rework for intensity happens then it would directly shave off a set amount of time. 100-1 (100 intensity to 1 second) could work or might need to be more/less. if it doesn’t change this is the only one that really stays a percentage.

Goals

To turn substats into main stats, better build diversity rather than 70 power 700 defense 200 attack speed/size

Different ways this could change

Strait change

every 1/3/5 (numbers are weird for balance) points in attack speed/size would directly increase the base stats of the item you are using by .01. ok i need examples

Lets say lights got 1.8 speed and i get 50 attack speed (assuming its 1-0.01) then now my light magic has a speed of 1.85, or with explosion i have 1.3 size (thats the number right?) and have 200 points into size i now have a 1.5 size (assuming 1-0.01)

Formula (kinda)

Base stat + (x * 10^-3) = y where x is the amount of points in size/speed you have

example.

1.8 + (150 * 10^-3)
1.8 + .15 = 1.95 attack speed

Dependent Change

This is the same as the first one but instead is meant to be better for something with an affinity for that thing

Lets assume light magic again. It has 1.8 speed. now this time instead of it being 1-.01 its 1-.018. Its a minor change but onioncream had mentioned something like it should be more efficient if it already has stat.

More formula (Kinda)

base + [(base * 10^-2) * x]

ex.

1.8 + [(1.8 * 10^-2) * 100]
1.8 + [.018 * 100]
1.8 + 0.18
1.98

This version makes it more efficient if it has affinity for that thing and less efficient as seen in the results

Now numbers they do be weird and numbery so it would make sense if these formulas had to change to every 3 or every 5

Change in stat amount

It could also just be a change in stat amount given which means 1 will = .1 but there will be less of it on a piece of gear (like how power is but i don’t see this as better than the other two)

TLDR

I think this would be better than the way it is rn as it makes builds more versatile and creative while also turning substats a little more into a mainstat

opinion pls no heated argument i tried to cook out flaws

1 Like
2

balancecord throwing away ur suggestion

2 Likes
3

I’d personally love clearer, more understandable substats that wouldn’t change with each update.

… However, I don’t think the balance team agrees with me on that.

3 Likes
4

nah they told me go here if it were a remake of stats

5

current formula is so convoluted and messy this would be such a simple and refreshing rework

my only problem is intensity and atk speed scaling would have to be different bc of how they work

edit: i reread ur example and i’m stoopid ignore my complaint, changed 4 star to 5 star

2 Likes
6

of all suggestions i made i want to go through its this

7

oh yeah one more thing

it would still have to sscale based on level so the formula could be changed to like 0.01 * 140 / player level per stat point

8

? what? is it possible for you to rewrite the whole thing so i can replace it?

9

This barely makes the system simpler and would be a complete waste of time both for Vetex and for us. We’re not doing this, especially since it creates new issues that would hurt both build creativity and the overall balance of speed/size:

Size, speed, and any future affinity-related substats would become much worse/better when paired with higher/lower respective affinities.

For example, +0.1 worth of speed on a 1.6x affinity (light next update) would be more than half as efficient than on let’s say wood magic (0.8x speed)

On wood, this’d be a 12.5% speed increase, but on light, it’d be a 6.25% increase. This huge difference in effective efficiency would leave us with two choices, either massively nerf the speed so that it’s not overpowered on low affinities (which would make them completely unusable on high affinities), or buff it so that attack speed is usable on high affinities (which would make it super broken on low affinities).

The only solution to this as far as I know is to change the amount of stats you get depending on the affinity, which already exists for attack size in the current version of the game (you get slightly buffed/nerfed attack size stat efficiency depending on your size affinity). Again, that’s even more unnecessary work that Vetex would have to go through, with the end result basically being the same as the current somewhat complicated substat system.

There’d also be additional issues related to attack speed:

The way speed reductions of frame data (startup, endlag, time between multi hits, etc) work is that they get multiplied by by (100%-efficiency%) for every separate source of speed. This way of calculating frame data results in natural diminishing returns via consecutive negative multiplications. For example, two sources of 30% speed would look like this:
1.0 * 0.7 * 0.7= 0.49

Instead of:
1.0 * (1.0-0.3-0.3) = 0.4

This is good, because otherwise using light imbue on an ardent greenwish staff would reduce your startup by 97% this update or 67% next update (since weapon enchants are becoming multiplicative and light imbue speed is being nerfed) instead of 54%

This is similar to the diminishing returns that we’re giving the attack speed stat. 40% startup reduction is more than twice as valuable as 20% startup reduction, since making moves unreactable is a much bigger advantage compared to it just being fast.

Turning attack speed and affinities into one source through this substat rework means we’d have to make an additional formula that reduces your startup reduction depending on your affinity and attack speed stat, which would in my opinion make this system more complicated than the previous one, on top of being a massive waste of dev time.

Also, idk who told you to post a balance suggestion on the forums but that’s against the suggestor guidelines, try not to do it again, this post is formatted well and you clearly put a lot of effort into it so I don’t wanna have to remove your suggestor perms due to posting stuff in the wrong place

1 Like
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LET ME HAVE MY SPEEDMAXXING METAL MAGIC!! :speaking_head: :fire:

Edit: I MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD THE SUGGESTION :speaking_head: :fire:

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3000 intensity meta (30 sec cooldown, ult arts are 30 secs long):

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sorry, i was trying to hopefully make something so balance team isn’t constantly changing stuff

13

aint that literally just this

the proposed change was to have the atk speed stat be a multiplier for base atk speed affinity so this exponential scaling wouldn’t be a problem at all
if the formula is something like: final start up time = base start up time / atk speed affinity then the scaling would be “diminishing” in the sense that the percentage of the total start up time reduced per point is diminishing

14

if the formula was reworked to something like each point in atk size / atk speed increases the affinity by 0.03%, it would be infinitely more intuitive than whatever mess of a formula we have currently

as a result i imagine actually balancing the stats would be much less of a headache

15

YKnow what I hate about the current stat system? It heavily encourages minmaxing the optimal amount of like two stats, because after a certain point it’s just useless to add more

1 Like
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btw does anyone here know how i would put this in balance cord? maybe it will get seen there better than here

17

Post it in the balance cord I assume

18

no like where, ill just ask fridge maye

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Idk I don’t have discord

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@FridgeUchiha do you know how i would put this in balance cord?