The issues with the water breathing and balance

[DubiousLittleTyp0]

The horde.

[Waping]

its weird so many people are surprised to learn that 5 jewels granting permanent waterbreathing wasnt a bug in the first place

[Waping]

ion really have reasons to argue anymore, im talking to walls and fluect got better arguments

[Nuclearman7]

Plenty of people knew it was a bug, but because it was left untreated for so long they assumed the bug became a mechanic, which would have been perfectly fine for all the reasons i mentioned in my responses to meta

[TheoreticalExistence]

5 jewels that grant no additional stats, require alot of RNG (or incredibly valuable luck reagents) to get, and are only found in the dark sea.

Should it be infinite? No, probably not.
2x is barely anything though, if you’ve ever gone to a diving spot without potions or jewels you know that 2x is barely anything.

That’s all that cost for water breathing 1 if not less.

[Waping]

itd be 4x after the change tho, ion see whats so bad about it
then add a waterbreathing 1 potion and you got what, 8x air time?

[Nuclearman7]

3x is still ass compared to just using potions or 50% swim speed

Its 3x not 4x btw

@Waping

then add a waterbreathing 1 potion and you got what, 8x air time?

Dont think waterbreathing 1, and prolly not even 2 either, decreases your air consumption by 50%

[TheoreticalExistence]

Massive investment and crippling your build’s stats for perm waterbreathing 1 when I could boost my swim speed instead and get a tangible bonus without a full set of musgravites.

[Waping]

ah yeah you right itd go from +100% to +200%
waterbreathing 1 does halve air consumption tho

[DubiousLittleTyp0]

Balancing team explaining to me why they removed half of my grandmother’s chromosomes (her walkspeed affinity was 0.00001% too high for women of her age)

[Waping]

oh yeah i should specify those numbers can definitely be wrong cuz base air capacity changed with updates
the ratios arent tho

[Nuclearman7]

Oh alright that is pretty nice info to know. Still doesnt make this change much better tho seeing as you might as well opt for 140% swim speed instead of literally any % of air cap at that point

[Fluect]

@A_friendly_Bear

these are 2 different games, one is a sandbox one is a story based game

And you could honestly argue that it would be even more justified in the sandbox game, which I was about to do but I didn’t want to seem like I was doubling down too hard on my point, especially since Minecraft has RPG elements alongside AO.

@A_friendly_Bear

while u could use that to run away in a fight the bug fix wont fix this due to the fact that people running 100 (or i assume 200 with the buff that it recieves) will simply be able to do the same thing, u will die of drowning before they do

It actually somewhat will because both players don’t have to go underwater. The person underwater will have to come back up eventually. But you’d still be able to camp underwater as long as possible near a shoreline then come up and go back underwater again, which is completely unfixable from a numbers perspective.

@A_friendly_Bear

this can be countered easily by the fact that sunken pieces (espacially the warrior one) is a late game item, the chances to get one in early game are very low but the chances to get one in late game are more higher, and that just talking about iron sunken which based on the level its seem to be a mid-game item, while rusty items and some iron ones are more of a early game item

Why would you want to counter that? Why would any rare item be “earlygame”? As we progress throughout the game stuff is going to get rarer there’s a very strong correlation between “late game” and “rare” to the point that this distinction is unnecessary.

@A_friendly_Bear

calling a sunken sword rare with “” should be considered a warcrime, people are paying a lot for them, but might i add that now u can make a good build without sunken, or at worse 1 sunken piece

I’m saying “Rare” to distinguish Rarity from drop chance.

@A_friendly_Bear

for the drawback of not having a place in pvp and having place in a very small pve content, while the stat itself is shit and having much more better alternatives, yes, that a good thing to have, even then if u want to make it to be viable u need to make it so u can stay in water for a extremely long period of time

imagine if intensity had some niche effect, like rlly niche, sure it might not be good in pvp but in high investments it helps on a niche pve content, u have multiple stats better than intensity, using it in pvp is a bad idea, using it for any other pve contet is bad, nerfing it or fixing a bug that in result takes away that niche will gut the stat

This is my main issue with balancing now. Before people used to draw black and white conclusions in situations where the nature of what you are dealing with means that there can only be two outcomes. Now people will literally just draw black and white conclusions about everything.

“If Thermo isn’t literally the dictionary definition of ‘aggression’ then it’s bad so remove it’s DoT entirely because DoTs promote passive gameplay”

The amount of value between 1 and infinity is… infinite? This is quite literally the biggest value spectrum possible there’s no black and white here. Something can be good without being infinite.

@A_friendly_Bear

these 2 are widly different, vetex himself said he wont add the flight (i think that was the name) spell bc it will replace boats, old swimming speed bassically did that, as well as being even more annoying in running

And this replaces water breathing. It doesn’t matter how significant the scale is between how disasterous those two things are. What matters is that something that I believe is crazy that also completely replaces another utility is being justified as a response to a gem being nerfed. That’s the validity of the comparison.

@A_friendly_Bear

yet that not enough to be good, unless u allow players to stay in water so much that u might as well make it infinit, there wont be any player with some experience in the game that runs that

I don’t do too much underwater stuff so I’m gonna have to take your word on that.

[WarmWater]

@Fluect

I don’t do too much underwater stuff so I’m gonna have to take your word on that.

I feel like this is exactly what this post is about

at least do the things you want to balance man

[MrNormalBox]

I mean to be fair its been in the game since they were released. Atp it wouldve been bold to assume it wasnt intentional

[TheoreticalExistence]

@Fluect

I don’t do too much underwater stuff so I’m gonna have to take your word on that.

Then why are you trying to balance water breathing and argue in favor of massive changes towards it like this if you don’t even interact with it and are unfamiliar with it?

[Waping]

dont really need to be a genius to know being underwater infinitely, permanently, with no cost whatsoever nor even a potion timer, isnt a good idea tho. in no way should jewels drastically change what you can and cant do like that, and hell you dont even need to minmax to do this
again if waterbreathing jewels are terrible after this then buff them, dont just go straight for infinity

[Nuclearman7]

@Fluect

And this replaces water breathing. It doesn’t matter how significant the scale is between how disasterous those two things are. What matters is that something that I believe is crazy that also completely replaces another utility is being justified as a response to a gem being nerfed. That’s the validity of the comparison.

It doesnt, but the bug fix actually replaces air cap

@Fluect

I don’t do too much underwater stuff so I’m gonna have to take your word on that.

Bruh…

[TheoreticalExistence]

and I am saying that they are terrible after this because anybody that actually interacts with the system knows how little of a boost this is for how much it costs.
That is what everyone here is saying.

[Waping]

buff