Hes much faster and can freeze his opponents?
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LOL I had a rant drafted about a similar subject in another thread that I didn’t want to post for derailing but this is a perfect place to post it
So to begin the reason why he didn’t beat the living daylights out of those two frauds is cause of his depression after having to kill all his crew and oldest friends yadda yadda yadda. But that’s not where my problem personally comes from, I actually am completely fine with that event happening in a vacuum.
My issue with the “Cursebeard war” starts at its beginning. You’re telling me that the One Shot Pirates, made up of THE top tier of the verse at that time, two literal gods, and a bunch more commanders who were all incredibly powerful couldn’t just blast through the hordes of the undead to get Arthur to Durza?
I don’t care if there were a ton of dead people for Durza’s army after the Fracture, how strong could they possibly get considering most were probably nobodies with no magic? Even if Durza could power them up, how could it be that much stronger than the army that prime Theos destroyed with ease if Durza himself is weaker than he was? Sure they’re extremely tenacious and hard to kill cause they’re basically zombies but again prime Theos BODIED his previous army ON HIS OWN. So nooooo way would Arthur have any trouble if he really is top of the verse.
But let’s say for arguments sake that Durza did get more proficient with his powers (even though he’s weaker still 
)and somehow made the undead army more dangerous than the previous one. Why would Arthur not have just spirit bombed it with his INFINITE ENERGY the second his crew started having trouble? Or have use his Tide Curse with the actual god of the sea to submerge them then freeze them with the Ice Curse? Or leave the crew and other commanders to handle the undead while Arthur goes for Durza directly instead of sitting on his ass? So many ways to deal with them other than doing nothing
Honestly I wasn’t that peeved with that whole situation until Vetex in his infinite wisdom decided to nerf AA Durza compared to pre-Fracture Durza, which makes Arthur and the OSP losing even more egregious 
. Granted we have basically ZERO info on how everything went down but it’s gonna be reaallyyy hard to salvage that to make sense without asspulls
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a lot of plot holes could be resolved by simply making durza stronger
idk why vetex states durza is significantly weaker than he appears in the story when it leads to weird situations like this
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dw that gets fixed in 13 months after the next 32 retcons
Legit the source of my issue, I’m actually totally fine with Durza losing a lot of his power from the Fracture because having 800 years to get stronger starting from his pre-Fracture level would’ve been insane
If vetex had just said that Durza just barely returned to his pre-Fracture power a few years before AA and was a bit stronger when the Cursebeard war started it would’ve made things so much less weird. Then he could’ve absorbed a bunch of magics/curses from the commanders during the war and gotten strong enough to tag team a depressed Arthur with Zeus. That way Arthur gets to actually fight back (but he doesn’t put his all into it cause he’s on suicide watch) but can still get reasonably overpowered and be defeated WITHOUT needing to be ganked
Crippling depression
Can’t believe the meme made it here dawg 
fr, or vetex could just have durza be strong enough to beat cursebeard in a straight fight with the help of undead zeus cus the depression reason is stupid af
you’d expect someone with a curse like his gathering magics and curses for a thousand years to be easily top 3 but somehow this fraud is weaker than the fucking wood curse user
what if durza went after the weaker osp commanders and revived them to fight for him and overwhelm cursebeard’s forces idk how cursebeard lost too he literally can’t get tired and is leagues stronger than durza
because the player needed to have a final boss.
we probably would have been able to see how acheron (which is actually a hard as fuck name, y’all just don’t like change) managed to beat cursebeard if roblox didn’t break the game, but it did, so it doesn’t matter now.
i am literally too jjk-brained to give my own thoughts here without spoiling the manga, so i simply won’t : )
I’m not gonna argue too hard because I ultimately agree that Cursebeard should have gone down so easy, but I do feel like there are a couple issues with your argument(note I wrote that at the start, but that kinda changed really quickly, still don’t like how this fight ended but I don’t take nearly as much issue with it as I did before I wrote this).
The army he took to fight Theos was only made of villagers and and some number of mages. Even with them being empowered by Acheron, undead Zeus alone, which the lore doc pretty well implies is still incredibly powerful despite being undead, already kinda shifts the power balance in Acheron’s later army’s favor.
Also end of AA Acheron still possesses a large wealth of power and considering both pre and post-fracture Acheron were trying to equip entire armies I’m not really sure if it makes much of a difference. I guess if pre-fracture Acheron really wanted to put a much more significant amount of power into certain members of his army he could do it a little better than post-fracture Acheron, but post-fracture already makes up for that with undead Zeus and more than likely other people who were already strong enough without his help.
Like I said before he still does have a large wealth of magic to empower his army with, but also considering he’s pulling from a much larger group of people he likely has a lot more mages in his later army than he ever did in the one he used against Theos.
Sheer girth(haha) of the army makes this already pretty difficult. Fracture allowed for a much bigger army for Acheron, and like I said before that still includes a lot more natural mages and Acheron can still empower most if not all of them with at least some magic. Even if the ones that can fly try to go over they’d be both trying to get past a bajillion magic blasts being shot into the air, but also having to deal with the literal god of the sky in his domain.
Here’s where I start agreeing. There seriously needs to be some more info on exactly how the energy curse works otherwise we run into this exact problem of why Cursebeard couldn’t just do that.
There is this part of the lore doc though:
It does kinda imply with “his energy was still full” that Cursebeard has an upper limit of energy that he can’t exceed(Not sure if that’s determined by his body or the magic energy of the curses he possesses or both, and the energy curse just keeps him topped off so he’s always at that limit. Thus a spirit bomb thing with a massive amount of energy would really be possible for him to make, at least not instantaneously which at that point he’s just leaving himself open to get blasted to high hell. I find that reasonable enough to believe just from that one line, but if you disagree I won’t hold it against you.
Maybe? Kinda seems like a trap that could only work once, could be broken out of or helped by other undead to be broken out of, probably wouldn’t be able to hit the whole army at once(at least not undead Zeus who could probably break the rest of the army out very quickly), and would become a double edged sword very quickly the moment Acheron’s army gets close. I can still see your point here, but I dunno if this is the perfect solution you might think it is.
Same problem as massive amounts of blast in the sky and the lord of the sky playing goalie. Even if Cursebeard is the strongest human this might still be a problem with him if he has to ignore the army and not fight back. If these alone were the issue though I’d admit that even with those obstacles Cursebeard could probably make it to Acheron eventually though it might take him a while. However, there’s a bigger problem in which he’s kinda ditching his army here, which is not only something he probably wouldn’t want to do given what we know about how much he cares about them, but would also lead to them probably getting overwhelmed and dying a faster than they already did in canon quickly adding to Acheron’s army and leaving Cursebeard in the same position he was in at the end of the fight in canon.
Okay plot hole thing aside cause after everything I said I’m beginning to think a lot of the “plot holes” here are only debatably so for the reasons I stated above, making Acheron as strong as he was pre-fracture causes a whole other problem. Even if we push any potential powerscaling issues it might cause aside, we’re still left with a pretty big problem when it comes to his last ditch explosion at the end of his fight with the Peacekeeper. This thing already causes earthquakes and storms all over the world, so if Acheron was at the same level as he was pre-fracture he’s 100% causing a second one and at that point the setting is cooked.
It’s not something that can really just be removed either since it’s ingrained in multiple things now. Most importantly the state of the seven seas and the dissolution of the Arcane Government. Also has to do with Averill’s story and is even brought up as “the wrath of the gods” in AO.
Also I dunno where the idea of Acheron being significantly weaker than pre-fracture Acheron comes from other than maybe confusing him being way weaker right after the fracture all the way up until the end of AA. This statement from Vetex pretty well clears up where he was by AA.
I can agree this would’ve been better aside from the need for Acheron to be stronger and not jumping Cursebeard with Zeus at the same time. Acheron as shown earlier is already still very strong by the end of AA and with a perfectly good undead Zeus with him against an injured and on suicide watch Cursebeard I find it to be pretty reasonable for them to beat him. Honestly the problem I have with the original is less that I find it to be an asspull or unbelievable and more that it’s just really lame and a sucky way for Cursebeard to go down. I don’t see why it needs to be a tag team and not a gank either, I think Cursebeard going down to a straight up 2v1 is a lot more respectable for him and Acheron doesn’t really need it to be a tag team fight for his own sake either.
Okay ngl after writing this whole thing out I’ve kinda come to realize I don’t actually have as much of a problem with this battle as much as I thought I did. At least not when it comes to supposed “plot holes” or “ass pulls”. I think I can find the way it went down perfectly believable. It’s just the ending really sucks for Cursebeard in a way that seems almost disrespectful to the character and a really weak send off. Sorry it turned out what I wrote at the start was kinda a lie I did end up arguing pretty hard, I still agree the fight should’ve gone differently, but I disagree with a lot of the points about plot holes and asspulls much more than I thought I did. I guess the best way to summarize my thoughts now is that in terms of plot and believability I think it works just fine, but narratively as the end of Cursebeard’s story it’s pretty weak and feels like a really disappointing way for Cursebeard to go.
I think you’re right. I wasn’t a fan at first, but it really grew on me fast and I’m even liking it more than Durza as of late.
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i liked it immediately if only because of that one dead rpg sega used to maintain like a decade ago
lost ass text where I half-agree and half-debate, I shouldn't have done this so late
Honestly I mostly agree with you on the new undead army giving the OSP trouble except for the outliers that are Arthur, Poseidon, and Apollo. Maybe I’ve just consumed too much media where the strongest characters can easily shrug off attacks from weaker characters but I just don’t see how they could ever be affected by a majority of the undead army, even if they are empowered by Durza. I mean even Vetex has said higher magic energy levels = more resistance to magic attacks and NOBODY should be able to touch those 3 besides others in their level of strength.
Oh no yeah I agree with you that Arthur’s infinite energy only pertains to the amount of energy that he can contain, it just means that he’s fighting at 100% of his strength all the time
You are right that charging up a spirit bomb would leave him open, but he could have just stayed behind the front lines while literal gods protect him from fodder 
. I’m sure at his strength level just charging up a kamehameha for a day would be enough to wipe the Seventh Sea off the map. Honestly though I could see him not wanting to do that out of honor or whatever
Ya I agree it’s definitely not a foolproof solution, I’m just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. The webcomic actually had him doing that kinda, but Durza absorbed the Fire Curse from Rupin after Trigno killed him, allowing him to undo the freezing. Maybe something similar happened in the actual fight
So my thing here with Arthur ditching his army is that it already seems like he did. I struggle to imagine how he wasn’t making quick work out of undead that would be utter fodder to him. Sure there’s stronger mages empowered by Durza thrown in the mix, but again this dude is the top of the verse. Again though I may be too power-fantasy brained in thinking that Arthur could just use his Blaze/Energy Curse to vaporize thousands of fodder at once
Aren’t these two points kind of at odds with each other? Durza’s only a little bit weaker than his pre-Fracture level, so his self-explosion should’ve caused global devastation on a similar scale. Earthquakes and tsunamis are nowhere near the same severity as every single continent on the globe being destroyed and split into small islands.
But addressing the issue if Durza was stronger than his pre-Fracture level - I personally headcanon that the PK realized what Durza was going to do thanks to Theos’ story of their battle and used their full power to redirect most of the explosion into space. Course the same could explain my complaint in the paragraph above so I guess I’m disproving myself with my headcanon too lol
Well said, in the end I 100% agree. I ain’t gonna go on a crusade hating Vetex’s writing and lore (even though I kinda did in my rant oops) just cause of that battle. Especially since most of it is leftovers from years ago, so it might hopefully get rewritten to be narratively better and less disappointing as you put it.
I like acheron too but I use durza partly cause of the webcomic (my goat) and partly cause the D and the Z make the latter sound sharper/harder (in a vocal sense), which makes the name sound more menacing to me
also when I hear acheron I still think of
It’s not like Acheron has nobody who could hurt those guys by themselves, I know I’ve said his name a lot, but undead Zeus is definitely pulling the most weight here. There are probably a couple more in the army like that, but even if not those three still primary targets for an army that outnumbers them to the extreme. They’re gonna be getting hit a lot and even if they have more resistance that’s gonna add up.
There’s a lot of projectiles at play here which is the problem. Plus undead Zeus(the mvp) could just make a storm cloud above him an pummel him with lightning whenever he tries that.
I’d imagine with sheer numbers and the occasional stronger outlier they can last long enough. They didn’t need to beat him just keep him busy as the rest of the army falls. Undead Zeus(my goat at this point) did the heavy lifting of taking out Poseidon which was the key to actually being able to take out Cursebeard.
It’s kinda hard to tell for sure how much “not much weaker” is, but I wouldn’t say they’re at odds. I do think it’s kinda a threshold thing where you gotta hit a certain point for it to have that effect, but also he still did annihilate half a sea cluster and cause tectonic shifts worldwide which isn’t as far from the fracture as you’d thing. He pushed the same buttons, moved the same plates just not as hard as he did the first time and even if that’s not by an extremely significant amount that’s still enough to make all the difference. Like moving all the tectonic plates again is coming pretty close.
Not that I’m against this, but could the PK even do this?
Vetex on his way to ruin the lore
yeah but the guy is like 2,000 years old… AND was the king of the britons at some point
Did he just not give two fucks about all his loved ones in Britannia, only Poseidon??
Yeah but like BlueYonder said, this doesnt matter because Cursebeard has the Energy Curse. He could literally just spam massive curse blasts, and would not even blink an eye nor experience drain
Actually IG the inlore explanation for Cursebeard’s stupidity was arrogance + he wanted Durza’s curses, so the idea was probably to stall and not kill Durza immediately
Good points, here’s my own two cents.
My issue with that is the implication that Zeus was only released as a last line of defense. Meaning Durza only got him when everything was already almost over, this is where the issue is most inherent.
You can justify that Apollo, Poseidon, and Arthur were just being cautious of undead Zeus. But if Undead Zeus was only revived as a FINAL line of defense after 90% of Durza’s and Arthur’s forces had exhausted themselves, what the actual hell was Arthur doing? Sure, Durza might have a hundred, a thousand, or even tens of thousands of strong mages at his side. But none of them hold a candle to any of the gods, and certainly not Arthur.
To be honest it doesn’t really need to be a trap, from what the lore document says I’m assuming that Arthur and his main force were fighting in the Seventh Sea on the forest island. So by then everyone except Arthur and his forces would already be trapped with no escape.
Considering how powerful Poseidon and him are, I don’t see why they couldn’t just literally flush the island out of existence along with Durza before Zeus was resurrected.
Though, we can somewhat justify Durza’s meagre victory with the fact that he can empower EVERY undead he has using his Curses. My problem overall is that the lore document just… downplays it? Like, the Cursebeard War is the biggest and most world-determining war in the entire franchise, second only to the War on Olympus. But the lore document describes it in such a lackluster manner that just makes it feel like Durza cheesed his way to victory using “unsinkable ghost ships”
Sure, he could’ve summoned like a 1000 “powerful” undead mages, but we have no measure of how powerful those mages are. As strong as averill? Argestes? More? No clue, because the document didn’t expand on it.
Maybe Durza summoned other undead gods besides Zeus, like Undead Artemis, Hermes, or even Athena to fight against the pirates. But we don’t know because it wasn’t important enough to the Peacekeeper’s story.
Hell, we don’t even know Apollo’s role in it despite him being the third strongest participant on Arthur’s side. Who did he die fighting? Was he turned into an undead thrall? Did Arthur have to kill Undead Apollo?
Essentially suffers from the same problem I think most of the lore suffers from: Just kinda… vague.
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