I’ll update that, thanks.
Pinning due to this being a major game guide.
You forgot that the Burning effect makes Magma Magic do 25% more damage in the guide. Just a small thing
Added that info. Thanks.
np, you da man
I can confirm that paper got it’s impact damage nerfed to 0.85x. This is with 0 power so it should do 119xdamage_multiplier and it does 92, so its multiplier is 92/119 = 0.85.
Scuffed video i know, but it gets the point across.
Quick question. I get about this magic now, but everyone keeps mentioning a “secondary” magic. What’s that about? Can you actually get other magic types in the game yet? I haven’t found a guide that talks about that.
Later on in the game you will be able to use two magics.
Fire.
Added damage interaction totals for each magic. No real new information aside from updates to cold magic interactions, just more analytical stuff to make it easier to see how good magics are with their synergy.
Made these changes 2 days ago but forgot to post about it.
Ran the parser again.
plz fix the lightning section, it breaks my system
Aside from that, here are the issues it brought up. Format is the same as last time, see previous post for explanation.
Mostly consistency issues, but there’s a decent chunk of missing data on Ash. I’ve checked all errors against the trello, the wiki should always be right.
Acid's Bleeding interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 25.0
Statuses: 25.0
Magics: 15.0
Acid's Melting interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Acid's Inked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki:
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Acid's Soaked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki:
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Crystal's Bleeding interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 25.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: 25.0
Ink's Sandy interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki:
Statuses:
Magics: Clears
Fire's Charred interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Petrified
Statuses: Petrified
Magics:
Sand's Corroding interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 10.0
Statuses: 10.0
Magics: 0
Explosion's Inked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Ash's Bleeding interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 10.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: 10.0
Ash's Burning interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Petrified
Statuses: Petrified
Magics:
Ash's Melting interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 10.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: 10.0
Ash's Corroding interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 10.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: 0
Ash's Inked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses:
Magics:
Ash's Petrified interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: 10.0
Statuses: 10.0
Magics: 0
Ash's Freezing interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: -10.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: -10.0
Ash's Freezing interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses:
Magics: Clears
Ash's Soaked interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: -5.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: -5.0
Ash's Soaked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses:
Magics: Clears
Wind's Burning interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Wind's Poisoned interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Wind's Inked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Wind's Sandy interaction mismatch, amount different.
Wiki: -10.0
Statuses: 0
Magics: -10.0
Wind's Sandy interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses:
Magics:
Wind's Soaked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Clears
Statuses: Clears
Magics:
Paper's Inked interaction mismatch, replacement different.
Wiki: Scribed
Statuses: Scribed
Magics:
Only thing I’m not certain on is Acid’s interaction with Soaked and Inked - your document has it as clearing, the trello disagrees, but it seems believable that acid would clear the effect.
If acid does clear these effects, let me know so I can add a note to the wiki explaining that the trello is wrong.
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Yea I just assumed this. I think it used to say that Acid cleared those effects? Could’ve been nerfed and removed intentionally, but I think it is safe to assume that it does as it’d only make sense.
I do think that Acid doesn’t clear the Melting status because lava is way more dense than acid is, so Magma would clear Acid, not the other way around. It also allows the DoTs to stack if used in the right order, which I believe was the main point of separating their status effects. I will remove Acid from being an extinguisher of the Melting status.
As for the other stuff, I’ll go fix them right now. I greatly appreciate you going over the mismatches so I can quickly fix them.
Added a ton of interaction data to the guide. Go check it out. Spent 6+ hours.
okay
It should now be much easier to analyze magics now, and also the guide should be a lot easier to read. Will make some final changes in a bit.
Thank you all for the support and encouragement in making this guide.
Tad late to this change, but good work - lots of useful information added here.
I have a couple issues with SEDIT as a measure for how strong a status’s interactions are - this kind of thing is hard to quantify, but there’s definitely room for improvement.
I think the main issue is SEDIT considers three 10% interactions to be as impactful as a 30% interaction, which really isn’t the case.
The only interaction that matters is the best one(s) - a status effect that improves all magics by 10% would have the best SEDIT of any effect, but in practice it’d be a fairly bad second magic choice because almost every magic has a better status effect you could be using it with instead.
Sure, +10% on everything is nice, but you’re not using everything. You’re using X, and you’d prefer the +30%/+40% offered by a more direct synergy.
In particular, magics like Burning suffer from this, while magics like Sandy get an unreasonable boost. Positive SEDIT puts everything in roughly the correct order, but the number isn’t useful.
As for fixing this, perhaps use the root mean square interaction, similar to how variance is calculated?
In this system a single 30% interaction is worth 30%, and three 10% interactions are worth about as much as a single 17% interaction. Nine 10% interactions would be worth a 30%.
For the same reason, Overall SEDIT is largely useless because negative interactions are weighted too heavily. Frozen in particular suffers from this - it’s got by far the best positive interactions in the game, but literally every positive interaction is entirely cancelled out by Frozen’s bad interactions with Ash, Paper and Poison. The further -350% SEDIT from other assorted negative interactions just rubs salt in the wound.
Also as a minor nitpick, replacement interactions (Inked -> Scribed, Freezing -> Frozen) shouldn’t be weighted less. While they can be bad for damage, the replacement interaction is always desirable (and often has better synergies).
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I don’t really like the SEDIT measurement either but the point about only the strongest interaction being the only one that matters, even in a sense of purely combat viability rather than just going for themes or aesthetic, isn’t necessarily correct because interaction stacking is gonna be a thing (well it already is, just severely broken). Even not considering that, having multiple magics to interact with is really important for diversity of playstyle.
When I have less schoolwork to do I plan on devising a secondary system that takes into account a limited amount of synergies (most likely 2 for 2nd and 3rd magic for more practical use even though occasionally you may stack someone with 3 effects with a teammate) and takes into consideration the actual damage multiplier rather than the addition of all the effects, that being [Largest increase] + [sum of smallest increases] ÷ 2. I may make more amends to this secondary system or add extra “units” to determine stuff other than just damage output, but so far it’s gonna look like this.
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there’s nothing more satisfying than an automatically generated table, so I’ve generated all the Positive SEDIT measures for comparison
Full Table (Sorted by SEDIT)
| Magic | SEDIT | RS SEDIT | Fluect SEDIT |
|---|---|---|---|
| Wood | 160.0 | 61.2 | 95.0 |
| Fire | 135.0 | 55.0 | 80.0 |
| Lightning | 100.0 | 38.6 | 62.5 |
| Acid | 97.5 | 37.8 | 61.25 |
| Gold | 92.5 | 49.1 | 61.25 |
| Plasma | 90.0 | 38.7 | 55.0 |
| Magma | 87.5 | 38.5 | 56.25 |
| Explosion | 82.5 | 32.5 | 51.25 |
| Ash | 80.0 | 31.6 | 50.0 |
| Crystal | 70.0 | 33.9 | 47.5 |
| Sand | 70.0 | 30.0 | 45.0 |
| Iron | 70.0 | 36.1 | 45.0 |
| Glass | 70.0 | 33.2 | 45.0 |
| Ice | 67.5 | 35.8 | 46.25 |
| Earth | 65.0 | 32.0 | 45.0 |
| Wind | 50.0 | 26.5 | 35.0 |
| Water | 40.0 | 31.6 | 35.0 |
| Poison | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Ink | 35.0 | 20.6 | 25.0 |
| Snow | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Paper | 30.0 | 17.3 | 20.0 |
| Shadow | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| Light | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
The magics with the best damage synergies (in order) are:
Wood, Fire, Lightning, Acid, Gold, Plasma
Full Table (Sorted by RS SEDIT)
| Magic | SEDIT | RS SEDIT | Fluect SEDIT |
|---|---|---|---|
| Wood | 160.0 | 61.2 | 95.0 |
| Fire | 135.0 | 55.0 | 80.0 |
| Gold | 92.5 | 49.1 | 61.25 |
| Plasma | 90.0 | 38.7 | 55.0 |
| Lightning | 100.0 | 38.6 | 62.5 |
| Magma | 87.5 | 38.5 | 56.25 |
| Acid | 97.5 | 37.8 | 61.25 |
| Iron | 70.0 | 36.1 | 45.0 |
| Ice | 67.5 | 35.8 | 46.25 |
| Crystal | 70.0 | 33.9 | 47.5 |
| Glass | 70.0 | 33.2 | 45.0 |
| Explosion | 82.5 | 32.5 | 51.25 |
| Earth | 65.0 | 32.0 | 45.0 |
| Water | 40.0 | 31.6 | 35.0 |
| Ash | 80.0 | 31.6 | 50.0 |
| Sand | 70.0 | 30.0 | 45.0 |
| Poison | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Snow | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Wind | 50.0 | 26.5 | 35.0 |
| Ink | 35.0 | 20.6 | 25.0 |
| Paper | 30.0 | 17.3 | 20.0 |
| Shadow | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| Light | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
The magics with the best damage synergies (in order) are:
Wood, Fire, Gold, Plasma, Lightning, Magma
Gold sees one of the more significant boosts, as it’s only got 4 interactions and three of them are fantastic. Acid and Lightning drop noticably since they were previously boosted by a bunch of 10%s - plasma doesn’t necessarily benefit from RS SEDIT (all 20%s), but it rises a few places due to its peers falling.
In the lower half of the table, Ash and Sand see hefty drops as neither had any good interactions, and both of them were massively boosted by having 10% interactions with 5/6 magics.
Aside from that, the table is mostly in the same order, though Water, Ice and Iron see semi-notable rises in placement.
Full Table (Sorted by Fluect SEDIT)
| Magic | SEDIT | RS SEDIT | Fluect SEDIT |
|---|---|---|---|
| Wood | 160.0 | 61.2 | 95.0 |
| Fire | 135.0 | 55.0 | 80.0 |
| Lightning | 100.0 | 38.6 | 62.5 |
| Acid | 97.5 | 37.8 | 61.25 |
| Gold | 92.5 | 49.1 | 61.25 |
| Magma | 87.5 | 38.5 | 56.25 |
| Plasma | 90.0 | 38.7 | 55.0 |
| Explosion | 82.5 | 32.5 | 51.25 |
| Ash | 80.0 | 31.6 | 50.0 |
| Crystal | 70.0 | 33.9 | 47.5 |
| Ice | 67.5 | 35.8 | 46.25 |
| Earth | 65.0 | 32.0 | 45.0 |
| Sand | 70.0 | 30.0 | 45.0 |
| Iron | 70.0 | 36.1 | 45.0 |
| Glass | 70.0 | 33.2 | 45.0 |
| Water | 40.0 | 31.6 | 35.0 |
| Wind | 50.0 | 26.5 | 35.0 |
| Poison | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Snow | 35.0 | 26.9 | 30.0 |
| Ink | 35.0 | 20.6 | 25.0 |
| Paper | 30.0 | 17.3 | 20.0 |
| Shadow | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
| Light | 0 | 0.0 | 0.0 |
The magics with the best damage synergies (in order) are:
Wood, Fire, Lightning, Acid, Gold, Magma
The table is mostly unchanged from regular SEDIT - the only significant shifts in placement happen for Earth and Ice, which both have few interactions.
Magma and water also rise one placement.
Notably, plasma actually drops in placement, whereas in RS SEDIT it increases. I think this highlights one of the strengths of RS SEDIT, which is
Plasma has no superb interactions, but it has solid 20% interactions with a large number of magics. This makes it a good option compared to something like Lightning, which has a couple 25% interactions but quickly tapers off into the 15%/10% range.
Having options like 20% repeatable (on a 10 second status), 20% with petrify, or 20% and clear with bleed is more valuable than just 25% with soaked.
You can’t really put a number to the value of “interacts with bleed” or “repeatably interacts with a long lasting status”, but rewarding multiple options is a good way of coming close.
2 Likes
Thanks for the insight and doing the math for me.
Just to be clear, the RS SEDIT is the Root Square SEDIT, correct? And Fluect’s SEDIT is just:
which would just be the highest possible damage bonus. It also needs to factor in status effects that can’t be on the same target at the same time due to two of the applying magics clearing each other.
I reorganized the guide and moved the magic rankings to a separate document which I have linked in the OP.
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RS SEDIT is root square SEDIT - square the values of all the interactions (after applying multipliers), then root the total result.
eg gold:
(90*0.5*0.5)^2 + 30^2 + 30^2 + 10^2 = 2406
2046^0.5 = 49.1
I’ve calculated Fluect SEDIT as
Best Interaction + (All Other Interactions/2)
This isn’t the highest possible damage bonus - calculating this by factoring in status effects that can’t be on the same target at the same time is much harder, because there’s tons of different sets of interactions you could use and finding the best combination is hard.
Highest possible damage bonus also isn’t terribly useful, since it’d end up involving like 8 different status effects which is obviously unattainable.
If you want to use my numbers, it’s worth noting that I’ve calculated all the SEDITs with replacement interactions (Freezing -> Frozen) etc getting a multiplier of 1, since while they’re usually bad for damage they’re definitely not undesirable.
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