PvP's Growing Pains, and the Slow Change from Skill to Strategy

Hey all. I know I haven’t shown my face here in a while, and I hope a few of ya’ll have missed me. This is gunna be a pretty huge rant on my predictions for how Arcane Odyssey’s PvP will evolve, why the current state of PvP is so unenjoyable compared to the release era, and why that’ll all be okay in the end.

Buckle up, this is gunna be a long one.

- Foreword: PvP in the Arcane Series -

Thought it may have been unintentional, Vetex has without a doubt created and iterated on one of the most inherently unique combat experiences I’ve ever played. Combining the mechanical skills of movement and aim, the resource management of stamina and energy, the intuition of prediction and counterplay, all based around the core systems of WASD, T-jump, and endlag, is nothing short of an unmatched experience, for better or for worse.

As it has no compatriots in its extremely niche genre of combat, from Arcane Adventures to World of Magic to the present, the series’ player vs. player combat has always been extremely hard for newcomers to the scene to grasp and master. This is a double-edged sword; with PvP being the primary form of player retention the series possesses, a stagnant scene is not a good impetus for growth. At the same time, those who are willing to invest the time and effort to succeed are in for a completely peerless experience, and I don’t think there’s much out there that can compare to that feeling.

Skill has always been at the forefront in the series’ PvP. Of course, it has wavered from time to time. Legendary Weapons from Arcane Adventures and Mage on AO’s release come to mind, but there was always outplay potential from truly versed opponents.

Arcane Odyssey will mark the first game in the history of the series where skill falls by the wayside. I’m here to explain why that isn’t such a bad thing. Let’s move on.

- The Past: Skill and Experimentation -

The release of Arcane Odyssey can be summed up in one word; Pulsar. A meta more defined than the Lightning + Water use in AA, or Wind’s dominance in WoM. Though many were oblivious to it, though, much experimentation was happening beneath the surface.

People had yet to adapt to the faster paced gameplay offered by AO, and many of those who would soon arrive at the peak of the game’s PvP skill were catching on fast. Those who ignored the lustre of Mage found a great deal of extremely strong options, just out of sight of the masses.

We saw the advent of the 20% Shot playstyle, as well as weapons such as the Poison Tooth Dagger coming into the spotlight. When playing slow was guaranteed death, and AoE was already higher than it had ever been in the series, the only option was quite simple: go faster.

As we moved onto the Easter Update and Mage received its well-deserved gutting, the meta began to vary more. We had Mage holdouts, with many moving over to Warrior to abuse tools that were low-risk high-reward like Vindicator and Greatsword. We had Berserkers and Warlocks establishing aerial dominance, playing safely with Shot and going in for the kill when needed, whilst some preferred to play as Fighting Styles were intended; aggressive, and in your face, not giving you a chance to breathe. We even saw the first look at the viability of Vitality hybrids, with a notable standout being Knight.

Builds were fairly linear; classes were fairly linear; setups were not very diverse. Despite this, that experimentation still flourished. The PvP community grew, and new stand-outs were found. Was the Easter Update balanced? No. Was the meta still relatively strict? I would say so. Despite this, skill remained at the forefront, just like its predecessors in WoM and AA. Proper parry timing and mastery of movement and stamina management made dealing with AoE manageable, which top players used to the fullest of their ability. Mosquito playstyles had their checks and counterplay, and weren’t a guaranteed win.

World PvP wasn’t plagued by potions and quick-swaps to agility sets. I still believe that the first Great War was, perhaps, the best time to be a PvP player in the history of the Arcane series, rivalled only by WoM’s Guild Update.

The Brewing Update followed in a similar vein, but had many issues of its own, and problems from the Easter Update that remained unaddressed or weren’t correctly dealt with. After that, though, is where changes started to roll in.

- The Present: Slow Death of Skill -

The Dark Sea update marked the beginning of PvP’s state of growing pains, and the current limbo we reside in. Minmaxing became fervent and required, and created a giant barrier to entry for PvP that yet remains intact. Stat creep causes near unbeatable builds to be at the forefront of every engagement; even friendly 1v1s lost their lustre, when leaning into any one aspect of your kit’s potential could easily become infuriating to play against. World PvP fell into an even further decline, with the release of loadouts and Agility becoming leagues more powerful. Dodge reflexes reward passive play, and make backpedaling a nigh-unmanageable strategy if played correctly.

It cannot be attributed to any one factor more than another, but this is the point where the death of skill began, whilst the era of the future has yet to begin. This limbo we reside in will likely last some time, and will be marked by extreme adherence to the meta, and an unfair playing field that I desperately wish could be rewinded. We have also reached, and will only fall further into, a point where there are simply too many moving parts to PvP to properly balance and maintain. The size of the current balance document should give some indication of this state of affairs.

Mechanical skill has become less important. All that matters is being prepared for the cheese your opponent is utilizing, and trying to win with your own.

The community has also become far more obnoxious due to its deteriorating size, with many notably nasty and unenjoyable holdouts. Though the series has always had its fair share of toxicity, things may truly be at the worst they’ve ever been. The pool of active PvP players is smaller than it ever was.

While it may seem like PvP is on a collision course with rock bottom, it won’t impact it; I am of the firm belief it will pass through and become something entirely new. Allow me to elaborate.

- The Future: Strategy and Synergy -

Most of you are too young to know of or have played, but to any of my fellow oldheads out there, have you ever played World of Warcraft’s PvP? It is not marked by intense mechanical skill, lacking in mobility, skillshots, and many of the aspects most would consider to be fundamental to good combat.

Despite that, it holds a special place in my heart. You see, World of Warcraft’s PvP was marked by and required a different skillset; knowledge, intuition, strategy, and build. Though it may sound strange to those of you who are unacquainted, I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt Arcane Odyssey will morph into a similar path.

With every class possessing the full breadth of their arsenal, anything and everything will be able to be viable, though as always, some will be better than others. Knowledge will come to the forefront; you must know how what tools your opponent possesses, their strengths and weaknesses, how they are likely to use them, and what you can do against them.

With this also comes the need for intuition. On the fly, you must be able to adapt to both your opponent’s playstyle and the capabilities of their build. If you lose what may be the occasional rock-paper-scissors of builds, you must do everything in your power to shore up your weaknesses and find the best way to deal with them.

Strategy will be what defines your own playstyle. What spells and techniques do you have? How should they be configured, and how do they mesh with the stats and build you’ll be utilizing? We only have eight spell/technique slots, but we’re bound to have much, much, much more than eight possible options by endgame. What is important enough to remain, and what should be ignored for the way you play? How should you best use your weapons so that your abilities flow into each other in a way that allows you to press the advantage, or maintain your defense?

Synergy is also an aspect of this. The better your kit works with itself, the better you will perform. But, what will work best with what? In the case of Magic, you will have to look at more than damage interactions and statuses to find that answer. In the case of Fighting Styles and their evolutions, they must complement each other and be able to shore up each other’s weaknesses; or, alternatively, they may all play in a way complementary to one another, a similar show of aggression, defense, or mobility with different specialties. What weapons are best suited to which situations, and what is proper to use in differing scenarios? What will you be most comfortable with, and what can bring about the best results for you?

These questions are going to have to be asked day after day as we continue into the future and work on perfecting our own builds and strategems. Whether inherently or irregularly synergistic, each kit has the potential to be entirely unique. There may be a meta, but strict adherence will be extremely unlikely. Your kit in PvP will have to be about what works best with you, not what works best for others.

Finally, the amount of stats, gem effects, essences and possibly extra additions will make buildcrafting a truly unique experience. Stats may rise and fall in strength and popularity, and there will always be strong, consistent paths to follow, but the sheer amount of stats we are likely to possess means every part of your build can and will be tailored to your exact, perfect needs.

In the future, mechanical skill may take a backseat, but game knowledge and execution of said knowledge will become key. I don’t think this is such a bad thing, but it’s time to accept that holding onto the past is a pipe dream.

- Conclusion -

Arcane Odyssey’s PvP is changing. As for whether it will become better or worse, that is in the eye of the beholder, and only time will tell how accurate my predictions are. Despite this, I ask anyone else who’s truly feeling like PvP has never been worse to hold on, and to give it time.

Change is coming, slowly but surely, and I’ll be there alongside all of you throughout the journey.

Thanks for reading, if you have. If you’d like to continue the conversation, rebuke any statement of mine, or share your thoughts, feel free to comment or add/message me on my Discord, pristinewarrior. There’s plenty I’ve missed, and I’m more than happy to discuss it with all of you. Have a great morning/afternoon/night.

29 Likes

nop

gotta say tho, I think synergy is too overrated bec like you’re telling me if there’s no synergy it’s not as good?

Builds that don’t really work with themselves aren’t going to end up great, but will still be alright. Synergy doesn’t just mean damage/stun/etc interactions, though. Earth and Healing/Life magic were always what I planned for my Paladin. Despite (likely) the total lack of actual interactions, the kit’s identity of high-health high-sustain will probably be good for chipping down opponents, and excess health can be siphoned off for the use of Spirit Weapons.

There are so many other ideas like this I have off the top of my head, but I don’t want to go on another rant, haha. Maybe synergy wasn’t exactly the right word to encompass all of what I’m describing, but your kit will have to have an identity to be viable, in my eyes.

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This is a very underrated take, three new armor stats in one update, and two more planned ones. I look forward to seeing how buildmaking and progression in general evolves

As for the rest, I believe it’s possible to get to a point where both mechanical skill and strategy are both highly valued, although the mechanical skill would have to take another form than our current aim-based pvp

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Definitely. Probably moreso just going to lie in fast decision making and proper use of your kit rather than mobility or aim, and prediction will be a lost art by then, haha.

I’m not a PvP head by any means but I’ve been training vigorously since the Dark Sea expansion because it has made PvP somewhat enjoyable for me. At that time, I was still a PvE fodder. I can see why people hated dodge reflexes since they allowed fodders like me a passive playstyle and still had a chance to stand up to players with player kills in the hundreds. Reflexes are so busted they have to go.

That said, I think less emphasis on reaction speed and a more methodical approach to PvP are good compared to the usual rushdown route right now. God forbid I get dumped on multiple matches by my friends before I even get any of them to half health just because PvE and PvP are so different. Overall the start of my training was nothing short of mental torture due to how many things needed to be monitored at once.

min maxed builds will become a lot more accessible in the next update since exotic scrolls will be twice as common as a drop from dark sealed chests.
Making builds in general will probably be easier, since players could just use arcanium/fighting style armour since it should have the stats which work best for that magic/fs.

also I have a feeling that pvp might become a bit more slow paced with the addition of the resistance stat (regeneration to a certain extent) and the dodge reflex nerf, allowing people to actually charge their attacks.
but there’ll still be the option for faster paced combat if the user chooses to use an armour pierce build.

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I must commemorate you on writing an essay on Pvp! I expected a lame balance complaining, jive rant! (Which from what I have seen… are rampant on this website).

Instead, you kept me engaged, and it opened my 3rd eye for this games combat! Really cool how you gave a history on the games PVP eras and I do hope that your predictions are at least somewhat accurate…

I dont PVP at all… I enjoy the games adventure aspects because the pvp community is scary, but if your statement holds true- That would be awesome, thank youuuu

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I don’t see a bright feature for AO pvp mostly due to the lack build originality, we currently barely have any skills, and vetex doesnt’ like adding them, we’ve gotten 5 new skills in total since early release, a year ago, most of them being negligeable.

On top of that I find strategy a very hard thing to have in AO due to the fact you can die in less than 30 seconds due to a mistake, in alot of other MMORPG’s, there’s a limit to how fast you can kill you opponent realistically, in AO, any build can kill their opponent under 30 seconds, this issue is worsened in team fights.

The game is also becoming more and more passive as you said, actually fighting your opponent is a bad idea now, better cheese them. There’s also things like potions now that entirely ruin any attempt at a fair fight.

Meta-wise, I’d say the one we have currently is the worse we’re ever had, due to the fact practically EVERYTHING is broken, in most other metas we had one, or sometimes two broken builds, currently there’s a wild variety of broken shit you can do, going from 350 AtkSpeed Light Mage to Magma Leg.

This issue is only growing with Vetex often going rogue (ex, removing the Regen from defence and adding AP and Regen stats) and refusing to do things that are healthy for the game, not only pvp wise but also pve and casuals. He despises bugfixing, polishing, qol and balancing and shoves it asside, making it stack up. Leading to the issue rn with horribly balancing, horrible qol, an unfathomable amount of bugs, many gamebreaking and the optimization being so bad I genuinely get better FPS in WoM.

True.

Idk man in Wom it was just who was level 10k

I can agree. For the first time (In AO), the game felt somewhat balanced. No classes were inherently OP, there was much build diversity. I’d even argue that some classes were underpowered (mage, paladin, etc).
But I don’t think that’s the reason why PVP in this era was so enjoyable - I think it’s to do with the fact that getting a set of functioning PVP gear was simple, and at times enjoyable.

You grinded bosses for gear or grinded ships for chests for fair amulets and went to an enchanter, and that was that: you were done: you could competitively PVP. Substats still weren’t very good (I think?), and thus power and defense were meta. This meant PVP was heavily skill based- it isn’t “who can spam dash faster” or “who has the better munera sized attacks”, etc.

This pretty much sums up PVP at it’s curretn state. Literally no-one I’ve faced is running pure power/defense builds (in other words, skill based builds). Nigh everyone is running a gimmik build, be that 400 attack size oppenheimer builds, 400 agility Mach 10 afterimages, 400 attack speed super sayan endlag demons or even 400 intensity poison microwave mages.

All this means that PVP is not as skill based anymore as it was in the power/defense meta. As you said, this might not be a bad thing, depending on the uniqueness of new armours, weapons, lost spells/techniques. etc.

One word: pulsar

I meant after the pulsar nerf, and before surge. Mage was in a poor spot, I know as I played one

Good to see you again Pristine!
Thanks for the essay on PVP, I’ve been fighting a lot more players recently and this statement has held true the more and more I’ve fought

There’s definitely a high skill floor of knowledge and mechanics that you’ll have to master first if you want to climb higher in PVP skills.

Oh, yeah. I assumed you were talking about 1.11

I never liked AO’s PvP to begin with, its always come off as stat oriented, extremely unskilled, and janky from launch to now.

It has never been worse in every one of those aspects and if things continue down this path it will only continue to get worse.

Admittedly I don’t think I’d enjoy the game’s PvP even if the balance problems were fixed flawlessly because it seems that nothing can be done about the janky feeling the combat as a whole has aside from practicing in a game that feels like it actively punishes practicing and makes it as much of an ungodly tedious process as it possibly can.

Until I tried AO’s PvP, I would have called anybody an idiot for telling me there was a game in which the combat somehow managed to simultaneously feel far too slow and far too fast. You’d think those things are mutually exclusive, but here we are.

These issues could possibly be fixed for me personally if there was any good place to fight and practice freely ingame that wasn’t locked away to tournament events and nonsense that I genuinely couldn’t care less about.

After seeing whats happened to Clan circus and Sea league I totally agree. I was getting more and more familiair with the whole pvp community in these servers past months but upon closer inspection its nothing but a gathering of racism, bullying, toxicity, corruption and bias. Any mention of this and people will just make fun of u (again, bullying) but theyre genuinely all just 1984 groups (ESPECIALLY the latter mentioned server)

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yeah pvpers as a whole tend to be bad but some people act like they’re just better than you in everything and that they also know exactly how the game needs to be balanced

Do you still play the game? If you ask me, by the time the level cap reaches 200, the PVP will be the same as WOM, where everyone can cripple each other with just one hit. Unless they balance the game so much that leveling up no longer increases size or damage… but then the game won’t be fun. PVP is done for.

Er… well, I really don’t think giving it time will help with much. Just the other day in Elysium, I met this Earth mage dealing 500 damage per REGULAR SELF EXPLOSION, and each explosion had munera sized AOE. It took like three people to kill the guy. AND he still managed to have more than 1200 HP.

Why can someone have 2000 HP and still deal above average damage, or even extremely good damage? I guess I’ll never know. I probably won’t stop enjoying the PVP of this game… but eventually, things like bounty hunting or pretending to be a pirate will stop being enjoyable(like you said). And yeah, I’ve noticed that Munera 1v1s have also stopped being super fun.

Rarely, you’ll find an average player with decent PVP skill to enjoy the game with, but most of the time it’s always a 200 attack speed 200 agility build or 300 attack speed conjuror or whatever new bullshit is being brewed each day. Man. And the thing is, can people really blame dodge reflex for all this?

If we removed dodge reflex, the entire game would become who shoots who first. That size sailor warlords shining cycle+shockwave smash combo is now a constant pressure on your game, both in air and on the ground. 400 damage ultimate arts covering the entirety of Munera Garden… well, I guess that won’t change much since you couldn’t dodge it with reflex anyway.

But maybe I shouldn’t be so pessimistic. At the same time, though, the philosophy of “with skill, anything is possible” isn’t true anymore. Just because you can aim doesn’t mean you’re gonna beat that 200 attack size magma iron leg user who deals 100 damage per 5x selino hit. And even if you reach greater skill, enough skill that people would suspect you of HBEing, all that’s doing is leveling the playing field.

uhh that’s all i have to say PVP is hopeless and we’re all going to die a horrible death bye!!

Removal of dodge reflex, in short, would make the agility meta worse, and introduce an even worse size meta.

Imo dark sea update pvp has been and always will be my favorite update for pvp. High skill cieling and large build diversity. I resent some of the current changes that make the pvp slower paced and bring the skill cieling down. But it is what it is im going to still pñay at the end of the day.