Remove agility please

[AzureArchmage]

@Actravaz

Are you snorting something, this is like the 31st time im saying I would rather there be a solution that doesn’t harm pvers WHILE ALSO solving the ganking problem with agility. And yet you treat it like I’m begging for agility’s removal without any consideration for pvers at all

I understand your perspective, but the main point of the original comment wasn’t directed solely at you. I was addressing the general opposing party’s stance on agility removal. This discussion goes beyond just your viewpoint .

@Actravaz

If you actually read the thread you’d see many solutions like removing agility’s effect on things like dashing and jumps only in combat. Also it’s not just me struggling with agility builds in world pvp it’s literally everyone who didn’t want to build into agility

Yeah, what about the people who aren’t high size, power, and defense sailor warlords? I’m sure casuals didn’t build into that ? Agility is meant to enhance mobility in all aspects of gameplay, not just exploration . Gutting its combat utility essentially ruins what the stat is supposed to do. On top of that, it creates this weird inconsistency where agility works sometimes but not in other situations, which would frustrate players who invested in it (This shift would feel unnatural, as the stat doesn’t operate consistently across all scenarios. Players who invest in agility expect it to work the same way all the time, and changing its effects mid-gameplay undermines the sense of reliability and control that a stat like agility is supposed to offer.).

@Actravaz

Ah yes we should never bother solving problems at all because there’ll just be more awaiting. So I suppose we shouldn’t of solved any balance problem at all, Shotgun pulsar? Absurd attack speed? Unfair pve mechanics? We should never of fixed those because there’ll always be more problems

This wasn’t me suggesting that we shouldn’t address the issue; it’s pointing out that even if we nerf agility, it only shifts the problem rather than solving it . Gankers will always find another mechanic to exploit . Also, I’ve been the one proposing solutions, so I’m not sure why you assumed I was implying otherwise .

[A_friendly_Bear]

@AzureArchmage

Agility is designed for fast movement and flexibility which sacrifices power and defense, making it less effective in prolonged fights or against players who adapt.

that false, i ran a 220+ agil, 200+ atk speed, 600 defense and 85 power before the change where grabs will scale with agil, its busted, you have no problem making agil to work with anything, and just for fun, i made these builds

you are not sacrificing anything, like it or not after i got rid of that agil set it took me like 1h to get used of the base mobility bc its not that bad, AO isnt a game where mobility is badly design, what is badly design is the dark sea tall islands

@AzureArchmage

The problem isn’t agility itself but the lack of systems to counter its abuse (and for mosquitos or people who can still fight just as well, we can introduce mechanics that take away from certain stats for having excessive mobility like 150+ agility and -150 defense or longer dodge reflex cooldown. more solutions listed at the end).

no, no other stat allows u to decides who wins, if u lose with high enough agil and ur opp doesnt have agil or enough to even compare, u just suck, u just decided to let ur opp to win, another thing u can do is to chase while being unchaseable, also that such a dumb idea to take away from stats, that forces people to run specific builds, bteam already tried that and nobody loved, and for good reason as it straight up kills builds with sub-stats, it also a cheap way to fix a problem without caring of other stuff

@AzureArchmage

Gankers exploit it because they face no meaningful penalties, not because the stat is inherently broken

no matter how good you are, you arent winning against 4 people that can run away at anytime, the problem is that people decide who wins, who loses and when, and the only stat that allows you to do that is agil, but u cant accept that bc otherwise ur argument falls down

@AzureArchmage

(in my personal experience and many of my friends it really was not that overpowered

that doesnt matter, in my personal experience, agil is broken, oh wait that doesn’t count, so neither does ur argument, idc if you feel it, im just gonna look at the objective stuff and just bc ur not good enough to take full advantage of it doesnt matter

@AzureArchmage

If the main issue with agility is disengaging and healing, fix that. Introduce penalties for fleeing combat that you started,

exhaustion and cone-check systems are back/a thing now, which the whole thing is to make agil to only work when ur close to ur opp, which im sure u wont like that

@AzureArchmage

counters to excessive ganking, or like the afroementioned,

ur changing the subject from agil to ganking here

@AzureArchmage

like the afroementioned, give safe spaces or temp buffs.

wont happen bc people can run there to escape a losing hunting or effortlessly escape a hunter

@AzureArchmage

Nerfing agility into uselessness or removing it punishes players who rely on it for exploration or defense while doing nothing to solve the real problem: the game enabling exploitative behavior (which removing or nerfing agility only shifts the problem until everything is so nerfed that PvE is screwed over). Balance the system; don’t destroy the mechanic.

exploration is not a pain, this isnt the WoM map, 98% of the islands literally can be explored in 2 minutes, agil in any game cannot be balance, its useless bc the movement is good and its only purpose is to make said good movement unbalance and annoying or useful bc the movement is terrible

also ur changing the subject again, excesive ganking is an issue, agil is another issue

[AzureArchmage]

The dudes point was agility is partially what causes excessive ganking and that we can have solutions to fix it without removing it (kind of like my point), so yes it was partially about ganking

[A_friendly_Bear]

pretty sure he points out how agil is to blame for that or atleast have a big part of that

[AzureArchmage]

So then, ganking is apart of this. Its been included in this thread my him, me, and many others countless times.

[A_friendly_Bear]

man but when are u gonna responde to my whole thing?

[Volcanic]

@OnionCream

spammed beam and there was physically nothing i could do about it

so your telling me you could not land a single shot in their endlag? don’t you run a speed build? if they were spamming beam they were in beam range.

@Actravaz

The sacrificed power and defense in question:

the no substats in question.

@A_friendly_Bear

you are not sacrificing anything, like it or not after i got rid of that agil set it took me like 1h to get used of the base mobility bc its not that bad, AO isnt a game where mobility is badly design, what is badly design is the dark sea tall islands

i will say those build have 300ish less defence than usual

@15Edward

i deal with every time i play ao and they probably will change their mind rather quickly about agility

bro i was fighting kingbacon14 yesterday, ik its a fucking problem im just saying deleting it is stupid

i would make more response but theres like 60 paragraphs to read so I aint doing allat

[A_friendly_Bear]

@Volcanic

i will say those build have 300ish less defence than usual

worse come, u can run this if u rlly want that 300 defense back

[AzureArchmage]

@A_friendly_Bear

you are not sacrificing anything, like it or not after i got rid of that agil set it took me like 1h to get used of the base mobility bc its not that bad, AO isnt a game where mobility is badly design, what is badly design is the dark sea tall islands

So yes, I see, part of my argument was flawed since we arent sacrificing much. (Musquitos being an example)

@A_friendly_Bear

no, no other stat allows u to decides who wins, if u lose with high enough agil and ur opp doesnt have agil or enough to even compare, u just suck, u just decided to let ur opp to win, another thing u can do is to chase while being unchaseable, also that such a dumb idea to take away from stats, that forces people to run specific builds, bteam already tried that and nobody loved, and for good reason as it straight up kills builds with sub-stats, it also a cheap way to fix a problem without caring of other stuff

@A_friendly_Bear

no matter how good you are, you arent winning against 4 people that can run away at anytime, the problem is that people decide who wins, who loses and when, and the only stat that allows you to do that is agil, but u cant accept that bc otherwise ur argument falls down

Agility doesn’t decide who wins. Any stat can it depends on how good you are (like meta mancing warlords, or crystal or ice sailor/iron warlocks). Literally anyone can run away at any time regardless of you agility stat seeing as I’ve ran from multiple gankers and sever hopped with zero agility through sameria while they were running atleast 200+ with teleport relfexes.

@A_friendly_Bear

ur changing the subject from agil to ganking here

No I am not changing any subject, ganking was already an established part of this agility issue.

@A_friendly_Bear

wont happen bc people can run there to escape a losing hunting or effortlessly escape a hunter

Then why not safe spaces for the person which who was attacked first? Or temporary buffs for someone being hunted?

@A_friendly_Bear

exploration is not a pain, this isnt the WoM map, 98% of the islands literally can be explored in 2 minutes, agil in any game cannot be balance, its useless bc the movement is good and its only purpose is to make said good movement unbalance and annoying or useful bc the movement is terrible

In many players experiences I’m sure they have probably relied on agility for better combat potential. Stop trying to immediately dismiss it because you yourself don’t have personal use for it.

[AzureArchmage]

Also idk why anyone would want 2 insanity or just 23 atk speed. Slow small attacks and blury vision isn’t ideal.

[A_friendly_Bear]

i2 isnt that bad

[AzureArchmage]

Matter of preference I suppose

[Volcanic]

but then you have basically no substats

[AzureArchmage]

Also since we already have the solution to this thread why am I still on here.

[Actravaz]

@AzureArchmage

I understand your perspective, but the main point of the original comment wasn’t directed solely at you. I was addressing the general opposing party’s stance on agility removal. This discussion goes beyond just your viewpoint .

Then why are you telling this to me? I already agree that other things should be done instead of removing agility

@AzureArchmage

Yeah, what about the people who aren’t high size, power, and defense sailor warlords? I’m sure casuals didn’t build into that ?

Yes that stat build is the meta in duels and elysium, but there are still many people out there who aren’t high size/power and defense sailords. Also unlike an agility build if they’re losing a fight they started they can’t just skedaddle consequence free

@AzureArchmage

Agility is meant to enhance mobility in all aspects of gameplay, not just exploration . Gutting its combat utility essentially ruins what the stat is supposed to do.

I’m simply providing examples of solutions, But if the only thing it’s combat utility is good for is running then yes i’d rather gut it in combat

@AzureArchmage

This wasn’t me suggesting that we shouldn’t address the issue; it’s pointing out that even if we nerf agility, it only shifts the problem rather than solving it . Gankers will always find another mechanic to exploit .

Yes because metamancers will always find the best build to use, does that still mean we shouldn’t fix the problems with the current meta stat? Should attack speed remain busted as it was in 1.14 because people would simply find another build?

@AzureArchmage

Also, I’ve been the one proposing solutions, so I’m not sure why you assumed I was implying otherwise .

The way you were arguing about how gankers will simply shift strategies made me think you were trying to say that there’s no point in solving the problem, I apologise if i misunderstood

@Volcanic

the no substats in question.

@Actravaz

Okay but that’d be ignoring how agility also

• Makes attacks easier to dodge
• Increases speed of movement based

Also you realise that it doesn’t matter if their attacks are significantly harder to land if they can just get out of the fight easily if they’re losing

[Actravaz]

Im trying to work on my pale garden house in minecraft can we wrap up this argument soon

[AzureArchmage]

Blud I want to so let me make the last few replies

[Actravaz]

go ahead and make em I guess, i’ll just respond tomorrow

[Volcanic]

@Actravaz

Also you realise that it doesn’t matter if their attacks are significantly harder to land if they can just get out of the fight easily if they’re losing

increasing the speed of movemant based skills is like 5-6 skills not including grabs
and running is obviously going to need to be nerfed

@Actravaz

Im trying to work on my pale garden house in minecraft can we wrap up this argument soon

im trying to find one rn

[OnionCream]

@Volcanic

so your telling me you could not land a single shot in their endlag? don’t you run a speed build? if they were spamming beam they were in beam range.

easier said than done bro

also doesn’t change the fact that thre’s physically nothing i could do to actually kill them since they just ran when they got low