Remove agility please

[OnionCream]

removing agility would technically remove the major reasons i believe agility is problematic

but no lol

[spicytuna]

@OnionCream

so ig we’re allowing gankers to gank anyone with no repercussions then

idk man, turn the other cheek and move on… cant fret over every ganker honestly. takes you out of the game to focus on gankers when you can just agility yourself out or switch servers

@OnionCream

proof that dark sea islands are too big?
i agree that past i3 dark sea islands get ridiculous but

1. that’s an issue with dark sea generation and not base movement speed itself
2. we aren’t even supposed to be that far at this stage of the game

they are pretty big… but with agility tho, they get pretty small

[HeyImFlower_Somei]

disclamer, TL;DR all of the stuff before this. My take, removing it is absurd as it effects way to many items to get removed outright (unlike knockback being changed to intensity or the 2 attack speeds merging from WoM). It would have to get changed rather than removed.

Changes that make sense could be

1. Speed decreases the less health you have (if you have agility you lose the agility on top of base)
2. Agility does not work in player combat (teleport jump/reflex still does but does not gain other agility buffs).
3. better ways to counter play agility (sure attack speed could maybe reach them, but it could possibly be better for effects to also apply a little slow)
4. change armor piercing to effect armors itself decreasing their stats temporarily therfore removing some agility

Of what i have said. 1 could make sense it’s in other games for a reason, 2 would not go through to keep consistancies, 3 would take time to balance, 4 would apparently make armor piercing busted according to some people in balance cord.

My opinions on agility is

1. its a must for travelling an island or stepstones (especially without movement options)
2. it seems fine enough in munera 1v1’s i don’t really have issues other than getting outplayed cause of zoning (lack of options for me to attack simply skill issue on my part)

im down to talk about these points until i gtg to next class

[HeyImFlower_Somei]

my build is the variety

little different than in game due to some item swapping and not enough enchant

[Actravaz]

okay guys i’m back, yap alert inbound

@Lhama

Still can hop servers tho. And also, same as last one, I just dont get jumped often myself, so from personal experience it works for me just fine.

This is basically the arcane odyssey equivalent of just ignore your bullies at school. The gankers with agility still won’t ever lose a fight while you CAN lose a fight and never win. Server hopping instead of fixing the issue with agility just encourages gankers to keep doing what they do since they know if agility stays as a get out of fights card they can gank all they want with no consequences

@Lhama

I can easily make a build that has both good power/defense and agility + 100(or more, depends on the amount of agility) of another substat.

There’s still plenty of builds that would be hard to work out if you need to include agility, the following list contains but is not limited to the following builds:

Size speed builds, Resistance speed builds, High power and resistance but low defense builds, Regen focused builds, Intensity Speed builds, Builds with small investments in other stats like size alongside their main substat, High regen and resistance with low power or defense, Basically every build with 2 substats that aren’t agility.

@Lhama

If you dont have agility yourself, you will have other substats, unlike the ganker who had to sacrifice those other stats in order to gain a significant amount of agility, so stat-wise the non-agility user still have the advantage.

Okay but that’d be ignoring how agility also

• Makes attacks easier to dodge
• Increases speed of movement based (Spiralling fury, Rushdown, CJudgement,etc) I might actually be schizo can someone confirm if this change got in

@Lhama

Sucks that if you’re winning then they will just ran away? Sure does.
Should you care that much about it? I dont think so.

Yeah and if they know they can get away from every encounter then they won’t think twice before jumping someone and I think you already know many people’s opinion on gankers. If they couldn’t get away from fights they lose so easily then they’d be much less likely to gank randoms.
It’s not that I want something done about agility because I’m incredibly salty if they run away while i’m winning (okay maybe a little bit), It’s that that it encourages them to gank people even more with no consequences for their poor performance

@Lhama

I do think that slow gels, and agility pots

me when the hunters discover they can also use slow gels and agility pots

@Zormego

Running Agility is the only real way to deal with people trying to merc you for the sake of a green or yellow number.

The main underlying issue is gankers using it, not victims using it to run from fights they don’t want to engage in

@Zormego

Is it annoying between PvP players? Yes. Should it be nerfed or changed slightly? Yes. Should it be completely removed? Hell no.

I agree with this though, agility shouldn’t be removed but something should be done to address the issue

@MrYes

so pvpheads stop crying about someone running away from them because they simply don’t want to fight

Once again the issue is how GANKERS are using it, not the victims

@MrNormalBox

how about aoe builds get nerfed to the ground, id prefer agility to stay into the game than aoe menaces

That’s not the point, An aoe build can still be chased down and hunted if they’re losing a fight they started compared to an agility build

@TheEvilReeve

Y’all pvp blokes say that it is annoying having people just run away from a fight, but - counterpoint: its annoying having a pve experience disrupted by a rando ganker. If the victim running away is annoying, then so is dying and losing all your treasure charts.

What’s wild is how many people are missing the point, refer to the previous quotes

@l1on_heardt

i can see why people would want to remove agility - it’s the most broken stat currently in all scenarios, beating every single other stat since you can literally just endlessly run away from your opponent without anything you can do, really

it beats every stat in the game and needs to have something happen about this situation, though definitely not a removal

THANK YOU, someone who gets it

@Volcanic

agility must be deleted… people who invest are faster
defence must be deleted… people who invest in it are tanky and hard to kill
power must be deleted… people who invest in it do to much damage
atk speed must be deleted… people who invest get attacks that are hard to avoid
size must be deleted… people who invest get attacks that are hard to avoid

The difference between all these stats and agility is that the people who run other stats can’t just get out of a fight they started and are losing with little effort compared to the agility ganker

@A_friendly_Bear

the build diversity in question:

Ey man just because some people are gonna run builds like that doesn’t mean everyone does (I hope). I would still rather get ganked with a person running that build than an agility one regardless

@HeyImFlower_Somei

Changes that make sense could be

1. Speed decreases the less health you have (if you have agility you lose the agility on top of base)
2. Agility does not work in player combat (teleport jump/reflex still does but does not gain other agility buffs).
3. better ways to counter play agility (sure attack speed could maybe reach them, but it could possibly be better for effects to also apply a little slow)
4. change armor piercing to effect armors itself decreasing their stats temporarily therfore removing some agility

I do like these ideas but they could use some tweaks

Anyhow it’s obvious the number 1 people who don’t think anything is wrong with agility is people who use it to run away from fights to begin with and engage in pve activities.

I don’t have an issue with these at all but I would like for there to be a solution that doesn’t hurt pvers while also fixing the agility problem with gankers. If I could get some of you to answer this poll that’d be amazing

Why do you run agility (public poll)

• I run agility for PvE activities such as the dark sea
• I run agility to escape from fights I didn’t want to get into
• I run agility for it’s combat advantage (easier to dodge + boosts speed of mobility based attack)
• I don’t use agility
• I use it for none of these (elaborate with a reply)

tl;dr
agility is used by gankers and encourages them to jump people with no consequence

[OnionCream]

@HeyImFlower_Somei

Speed decreases the less health you have (if you have agility you lose the agility on top of base)

turned down by meta

@HeyImFlower_Somei

Agility does not work in player combat (teleport jump/reflex still does but does not gain other agility buffs).

i think a similar idea where agilities effects were reduced in combat was also turned down by meta i could be wrong tho
tbh i don’t think this is a bad idea since it makes both sides happy

[OnionCream]

thank you my goat
despite having different views, you’re like the one person who isn’t completely missing the point of why i hate agility

[AwesomeOS]

@OnionCream

you’re welcome to debate with me

Alr, I think agility should stay for the following reasons

1. It makes pvpers seethe with rage at its mere existence, and gives us a chance to tell them they have a skill issue for being unable to hunt

2. Every time it gets nerfed it makes pvers seethe with rage and allows us to tell them they have a skill issue for being unable to avoid fights

3. I don’t really play the game too much myself so it feeds me with endless debates to read on the forums without costing me anything

[OOFUS]

A couple ideas I have for reworking agility

1. Make it so it doesn’t affect skills such as leaps, rushdown, crushing judgement, etc.
2. Make it so that the more agility you run, the more stamina you consume when dashing & t-jumping

[OnionCream]

you’re right
glory to agility, may its reign last forever

[Actravaz]

I like your second idea but the first one is uh. There isn’t really an issue with those skills you listed besides leap, people don’t primarily use them for running and agility doesn’t increase their range if im correct

[Volcanic]

@Actravaz

The difference between all these stats and agility is that the people who run other stats can’t just get out of a fight they started and are losing with little effort compared to the agility ganker

if you are having trouble keeping up with your opponents it sounds like you need to run agility. I think that no matter the case someone who runs agility MUST be faster than someone who doesn’t. it doesn’t make sense that someone with 0 attack speed would have faster attacks than someone with 225 attack speed right? if you are having trouble keeping up with your opponents… forfeit other stats and run agility! no one is keeping you from running agility and slowness potions do still very much exist.

[AwesomeOS]

its like rb1 alts to me, legit just free content

[Actravaz]

@Volcanic

if you are having trouble keeping up with your opponents it sounds like you need to run agility. I think that no matter the case someone who runs agility MUST be faster than someone who doesn’t.

As i’ve stated before this is simply just hurting build diversity, being forced to run a substat to counter someone who uses it regardless if you enjoy it or not isn’t fine.

@Volcanic

it doesn’t make sense that someone with 0 attack speed would have faster attacks than someone with 225 attack speed right?

Someone with 0 attack speed can still defeat someone with 225 attack speed. Someone with 0 agility is unlikely going to be able to kill someone with 225 agility before they run away

@Volcanic

if you are having trouble keeping up with your opponents… forfeit other stats and run agility!

this loops into my first quote that i addressed

@Volcanic

slowness potions do still very much exist.

…which the hunter can also use to run away easier

also just so you’re not misunderstanding im not talking about targets using agility, im talking about gankers using them

[Actravaz]

also please answer the poll that’d be cool : )

[Ihateitwhenioof]

@hanmbi

Build incomplete? Hide
PEOPLE FORGET TO HIDE

Revealing pots:

[Volcanic]

@Actravaz

also just so you’re not misunderstanding im not talking about targets using agility, im talking about gankers using them

I dont really thing the problem is agility here as much as it is just gankers

@Actravaz

Someone with 0 attack speed can still defeat someone with 225 attack speed. Someone with 0 agility is unlikely going to be able to kill someone with 225 agility before they run away

this is a stupid arguement, someone with 0 speed is just as unlikely too be able to kill someone 225 speed because they’ll have less consistent hits

@Actravaz

As i’ve stated before this is simply just hurting build diversity, being forced to run a substat to counter someone who uses it regardless if you enjoy it or not isn’t fine.

I really don’t see an affect on build diversity right now, going onto any discord will show plenty of people who don’t run agility

[Volcanic]

the ideal agility rework should retain it’s ability to escape fights and keep its user faster than those without agility, but force you to be more strategic with how you use it. The problem with having agility lose it’s effectiveness as your HP gets lower is that people who build it have it’s effect reduced (trying to build 225+ agility forces you to lose other stats).

I propose that there be a conecheck, but instead of exshaustion (which just makes the user feel worse about their stat) there would be agility bonus given to the person chasing. as the chaser gets closer the agility affect would fall off and it would more fair

[OnionCream]

@Volcanic

I dont really thing the problem is agility here as much as it is just gankers

it’s GANKERS USING AAGILITY

@Volcanic

this is a stupid arguement, someone with 0 speed is just as unlikely too be able to kill someone 225 speed because they’ll have less consistent hits

factually incorrect

@Volcanic

I really don’t see an affect on build diversity right now, going onto any discord will show plenty of people who don’t run agility

every ganker i’ve encountered runs enough agility for tp dodges idk man

[Ihateitwhenioof]

I think the most recent solution proposed by the balance team is to heavily nerf the distance increase on dashes and T-jumps, but then in exchange make them happen significantly faster

basically change all movement skills reach their endpoint faster based on how much agility you have but not actually go any farther so you can use it to dodge but not really run