Vetex's rant on PvP (my take)

I used to hold the belief the PvP system wasn’t as unbalanced as it seems, because different builds all had their strengths and weaknesses, i.e. one build that demolishes one other will be similarly countered by another build, even if the builds themselves aren’t inherently balanced nor equal. Some builds were of course still better than others, but that could be fixed.

But man has this announcement made clear that vetex does not give a flying fuck about creating a fair experience. Let’s make one thing clear:

  • PvP combat is a VITAL part of this game. I would love it if it wasn’t, but quite frankly, it has provided and will provide far more engagement and replayability than PvE content ever will.

I mean, really, what PvE content is there? Dark Sea was a great addition, but to those who have gone on enough expeditions, it has become a slog that yields no differing rewards to ones that they have already gotten a million times. Fishing needs no explanation - as boring as it is, even to those who do engage in it and grind it, what rewards are they getting out of it? Sunken items are commonplace now among dedicated players. Ship farming holds basically no reason. Levelling Deckhands was somewhat fun, but not repeatable - just like the story. Rival farming, Treasure Charts, Diving, and Farming bosses, just like the Dark Sea, are done mostly only for better gear.

Actually, the main purposes of all the PvE content mentioned above are for better gear. But what is pretty much the only use for this better gear? The answer is PvP. All of the PvE aspects are innately for PvP purposes.

The in-place PvP systems don’t make this any better, either. The hunting and clan infamy sytem are just horrible to deal with, with the neglected and unbalanced PvP system that Vetex doesn’t want to focus on.

To conclude, PvE aspects just simply lack the replayability that PvP innately has. Even the future planned content apart from world-events (such as legendary and ghost ships) seem like systems similar to Deckhands or the Story that you play through once then lose interest in. Without a revamp, a revolutionary new system in a future update, or simply less of a focus on PvP systems, PvP will remain the core reason a large majority of this community repeatedly play this game.

The fact that vetex doesn’t recognize this is astounding to me. The reason this game revolves around PvP is his fault. If he doesn’t like it, then please put in the work to change that, rather than refusing the demands of the people that play the game based around systems you created.

Toxicity is a real problem too, yes. I hold no support for the people who engage in literal harassment. But the players he mentions are only but a small yet loud minority who echo the thoughts of the wider community.

In the end, this isn’t about the changes of the Port Mistral update - it has been fixed for the most part, and the state balancing is just about the same as it was before, from what I’ve seen. This is about our dev, Vetex, and his mentality about problems like this. I know this entire game series was a passion project, but did he really expect the community to follow him every step of the way? Did he really not expect problems like this to arise? To the point to where he starts demonizing his own community and his response to criticism is “if you don’t like it, then leave” ?

My concluding statement is this: Please fix your game.

and to the toxic PvE players, a big :fu: from me. The statement “if you don’t like it, then leave” applies just as much to you.

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this seems like a pvper biased post ngl

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I think we should add perma death like deepwoken… deepwoken is balanced, right??

About as balanced as type soul

I think you’re failing to understand what the announcement is about. If vetex truly didn’t care, he’d just do like no balancing at all, theres nothing stopping him from completely neglecting it and just focusing down on content. He does a pretty reasonable amount of it but he doesn’t do the entire google doc because of the size of it.

but the small portion of the community sends a barrage of discontent towards VetexGames, Bteam and the testers anyway. It’s post/comments like these that tell VetexGames on how to handle the game that set off the rant. Even though those same people have never been in a similar position that vetex is in.

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No it isn’t bro. A game like AO needs to have PvP in order to survive. Literally every RPG game that doesn’t have PvP has a really low player count. It’s the community that wants PvP, not Vetex.

First, he does recognize this. He said it himself, if it weren’t for PvP, his game would be a corpse, and he doesn’t want that.

Second, as a primarily PvE player myself, I don’t have a problem with PvPers. I have a problem with the little shitstains that enjoy making the game less enjoyable for others, and I have a problem with the ones that expect combat to be complete when the game IS STILL IN EARLY ACCESS, which none of you ever seem to remember.

Third, yes, the game is unfinished. We don’t have much replayability for PvE yet because of this, and it’s a big chunk of the reason PvPers are as prevalent as they are. This is not an inherent quality of the game, but an inherent quality of the state of the game.

Fourth, a big chunk of the reason some PvPers are hated on at all is because this is a Roblox game. I want you to find a single PvP-featuring game on Roblox without toxicity and bullshit from its community and tell me about it, because I genuinely want to see it happen.

Fifth, another chunk of the reason some PvPers are hated on is because there aren’t any systems in place yet to discourage douche behavior.

Honestly, I get where you’re coming from here, but you and everyone else need to remember this is one dude. One dude, working on an MMO. And people are constantly up his ass about PvP, a part of the game he is not focused on right now. Yeah, he’s pissed, because a portion of his community is constantly harassing him 24/7. It’s like dealing with a belligerent child that wants a better toy when you don’t have the money to buy one.

^ this

I blame bteam idk why they’re even there if they dont want to communicate with Vetex. They’ve created problems then blame vetex for them and vetex has never thrown them under the bus. I dislike the immaturity they have and lack of leadership there is in that group.

I take it into account that he recognizes the game must have PvP, yes. But my point is that he does not recognize how much of a core part of the game it is, and how it is quite frankly the only thing the game offers to a lot of people because the PvE isn’t engaging nor rewarding.

And I do also recognize that the reason for this is, as you put it, not inherent to the game but to the state of the game, However my criticisms still stand. Changes from this state will need to be made, and I don’t see much coming progress.

Vetex is only one person, yes - and I hold no support for the people literally harrassing him daily. But he’s still the sole developer in charge of this game, and he should take into more consideration the problems addressed to him by his entire community and provide possible solutions to them, even if he doesn’t want to. Because this is a huge problem that ruins the game for a lot of people. That’s my opinion.

So much of the community wants PvP because A. Vetex has implemented systems that encourage it, and B. the PvE content isn’t good. This is what he needs to fix. Either fix the PvP systems or add better, replayable PvE content. That was my point.

I completely agree with you dawg, you pretty much took the words out my mouth

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no such thing, only products of what pvptards have created

i wanted to make a sensible reply about how PvE can be better than what you said, how PvP aspects can be implemented without the abysmal skill floor and celing with a cool example, and why games running out of content is perfectly fine, but i decided its not worth my time so if you feel bored of the game, fuck off and play something else


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not him…

damn bruh i can’t even reply anymore

how did I see this coming

no
considering how no other game has such a polarized PvP scene (we are locking channels because of it) its arguably hurting it

no
you can have people want to achieve PvE goals by using PvE to further that, this game is just starved for content and it feels like PvP is the true endgame. almost any progression-heavy RPG usually has a mundane PvP scene because that isn’t the point of the game

correct

not entirely
he’s right about feeling pressured into adding PvP to stay afloat, but that’s because he compared himself to what’s currently out (cough deepwoken, completely different game). if he had first seen an overwhelming demand for PvP on release we could’ve avoided this

hot take, this is valid
if an audience your game is not intended for demands you to bend it to their liking, you have every right to preserve your creative vision and tell them to consume something else

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A product of something that itself is a product of Vetex’s game design…

It’s not Vetex’s fault that some people are complete pieces of shit, that’s your own fault or your parents fault for raising you so poorly

Isn’t it Vetex’s fault that there aren’t systems in place to prevent people being like that? He said it himself he knows how toxic the roblox community has become.