Bruh my estimate assumed fire instant finished its entire DoT not including re procs
I must slepp, but my bottom line is that Poison doesn’t need any sort of buff. However, in the case that it does, Ash is much more deserving of such.
I’ll continue the conv. if I feel like it tomorro
Actually, let’s hear from @Meta about this (along with whomever he thinks would also have a grounded opinion)
The only thing I can really add here as a PvE player is poison already feels powerful enough, my only issue is that it’s a bit funky how the DoT takes the damage from the first hit only and can’t be overridden by anything, not even stronger poison effects.
And also that kills from clouds (and other magical environmental effects) don’t actually count towards quests, which makes it really annoying to progress storyline quests like clearing camps or beating individual targets
yeah the 20 sec cd on poison proc is hella extreme
personally I do agree I think its fine as it is for PVE other than the bugs, these suggestions are more-so applying to pvp.
going to sleep now you guys can keep discussing if yall want
This I can agree on
This is to prevent a pseudo DoT stacking by using beam, blast and constantly resetting the counter but I wouldn’t mind if this changed since it would hardly effect pvp.
If that’s the case then I’d like to put down my idea on how to fix this,
Just have the poison effect work as usual, but if somebody is hit by a stronger poison effect then what is currently active, the damage will be overridden but the remaining duration remains the same
I don’t really think it’d affect things too much, and it’d make those weaker shots feel less wasteful methinks
2 Likes
Worth noting that the 20 second downtime is much less of a problem if you’ve got a second magic.
Fire/Poison in particular is exceptionally good - poison has a +25% damage interaction with fire magic, so you can use poison magic just for inflicting the effect (giving you the full 1.5x damage, or 1.35x if the target’s currently burning), and use a 1.54x damage (1.03x impact) fire magic while the effect’s active.
You essentially get the damage of gold magic at 1.0x magic speed.
Poison’s not great now, but “kinda bad but gimmicky and unique” is hardly the worst situation for a magic to be in.
while yes the 20 second downtime would be excellent with certain other magic;
currently we don’t have second magic
if poison is only viable with specific second magic or teams, then it fails as a stand-alone or viable by itself
if needed, it can be rebalanced again when second magic is released, as that would effectively fix the damage issue regardless by giving access to other magic with better impact damage
however right now, poison lackin
Again I say, Ash suffers from this on a whole other magnitude from Poison 
both need buffs honestly
ash still technically gets more immediate damage than poison,
as the added damage from it isn’t on a 20 second CD until it could be used again,
and add a few more seconds to that for actually hitting someone with a good dot hit
given that you still need to hit to start, and with roughly a 25 second cd till you can realistically proc poison again, ash has much more immediate and effective damage while still boasting clouds,
and ashes clouds are better than poison’s
Ash has larger clouds than Poison, but that’s 'cause Ash is legit just clouds and impact, whereas Poison has three total sources of damage.
On top of that, Poison’s easier to hit due to its higher speed, which makes up for the lesser impact damage. It’s not like you won’t be hitting them in between those intervals, so you’re still getting more than Ash would out of it, especially since you’re completely stalling their regen, which Ash doesn’t do at all since it has no DoT. The higher impact damage means almost nothing when they heal it off quickly. With Poison you have 20 seconds to do meaningful damage since they can’t just heal it off.
however the poison dot rate means that all its good for is stalling regen
if the enemy is at high hp, they still effectively take no real damage aside from the impact
hypothetically, the enemy has to spend time healing the extra impact damage from ash to begin with, and aren’t limited by weak or long dot/cd to inflict said damage.
and because they don’t need to rely on DOT to do so, they can focus on raw damage rather than long cd
not to mention poison dot from weaker attacks like explosions or beams also locks you in on the DOT cd, making poison just a weaker ash
this is only if we’re comparing poison and ash together however,
both of these magic arguably need buffs and are considerably outstripped by other magic as of now.
You do realize the extra damage is healed off faster than the 20 seconds it takes for Poisoned to go away?
The point of the DoT is to stall their health regen so you can get a higher total in, which is why it’s better than Ash (because you’ve a much larger window to actually do sustained damage thay doesn’t heal off, even if you don’t land as many shots). I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone call Poison a weaker Ash. No . . . just about the opposite (and I have to agree).
I legit think Poison only needs a readjustment, not necessarily a buff. Having its tick go up when hit by harder moves is probably the only thing it needs, since making the timer set/stack would be completely broken in longer fights, which have been proven to occur significantly more often when both parties are at equal skill levels as is evident by high-level players complaining of the slow combat.
technically,
that is a buff
even if you had the dot tick up on stronger poison hits, which would be nice,
it’d be useless if the poison dot just ended 2 seconds later,
which is why some sort of timer increase on it would be somewhat necessary
it could just be like 10+ seconds if the dot is raised, since dot gets capped at a certain amount regardless naturally
Yeah it’s a buff, but it’s more of an adjustment akin to the damage affinity change, which didn’t try to directly buff/nerf any magics, but was just a change in how something worked.
Idk, then be more aware of the timer to make it worthwhile. It’s not supposed to be a flat-out buff. I’ll bet you can hit them with a quick beam/other if you’re that desperate to get the DoT on, which honestly isn’t even a horrible play since it still stalls their regen time significantly.
10 seconds is a lot, literally being 50% of the total DoT time. If there was a threshold of time that only increased Poison’s DoT timer when met, fine, but it should be like 15 seconds in at the least.
The long, but slow damaging DOT seems pretty balanced to me, plus the underwhelming impact damage is made up for with magic interactions. When second magic comes out, poison will have great synergies with other magics because of how long the effect itself lasts.
however, thats when second magic comes out
which definitely isn’t coming remotely any time soon
@liu
lets compare poison to acid
acid has 50% of the impact damage over 10 seconds
and 0.90x impact damage
makes puddles (similar damage to clouds)
meanwhile, poison is 100% of impact damage over 20 seconds
and 0.75x impact damage.
makes clouds (similar damage to puddles)
now hypothetically, if the raw undivided damage was 100
poison would do 75 automatically, and acid would do 90.
now, factoring in dot
poison would therefore do 150 damage over 20 seconds off that first blast
while acid would do 135 in ten seconds.
now, taking this into account, acid could proc that dot again after only ten seconds,
a significantly shorter time, in addition to already higher base damage.
now, given acid’s cd is only 10 seconds, doesn’t that mean it can effectively pull off higher dot in addition to more impact damage than poison?
in addition to the effect being faster, which means more immediate damage is done.
Acid is also, just as fast as poison, and is only slightly smaller (0.1x) by default.
and by clashes, acid beats heat related magics, and even destroys poison clouds on contact
this is pretty unbalanced in comparison given they are both dot oriented magic
Acid puddles are nowhere near similar to poison clouds.
Acid puddles can only deal damage IF your opponent is standing on the ground. The issue with this is nobody ever uses attacks on the ground, the majority of combat takes place in the air.
Poison clouds on the other hand will deal damage no matter where your opponent is as long as you can hit them. You’re pretty much guaranteed to take at least 1, maybe 2, ticks of poison cloud damage before you exit the cloud (which is almost 40 damage) and even more if you get caught off guard. This never happens with acid puddles.
As somebody who has used acid for over 350 hours and poison for over 40 hours I can say without a doubt that they’re pretty much balanced. Poison clouds being significantly better in all scenarios compared to acid puddles makes up for the lack in impact damage.
the problem with that however,
is that puddles and clouds together barely do shit,
as you said, you’d only take around 50 damage tops before leaving,
and thats if you get stuck in the cloud
lets say you hit twice with poison in 20 seconds, and twice with acid in 20 seconds
(given its 10 seconds apart from each acid hit/100 base damage)
poison will do 225 including dot
acid will do 270
not to mention any subsequent or other hits within that time for acid will also do 90 impact,
whilst poison would only have 75 impact for 20 seconds
Any words on Poison compared to Ash?