Ways to make the Dark Sea less miserable

Ways to make the Dark Sea less miserable
effort 5.0 11 quality 4.636363636363637 11 reasonability 4.909090909090909 11

The second suggestion in the line of my largest, eh? The third one will be even greater.

So, the Dark Sea. RNG-built, treacherous location at the edge of the map. A cool feature of the game, I personally love it. Great replayability potential, multiple goals to chase, and even great loot drops to collect. But, there are rarely volunteers to venture out there. The Dark Sea has a lot of unfair, RNG-dependant and just unfun to deal with mechanics, that discourage players from interacting with the location.

This topic, as well as many more specialised threads were where the discussion took place. Any and all opinions were heard and considered. So, here it goes - the massive Dark Sea suggestion. There will be multiple parts to it, brace yourselves. The aspects of the Dark Sea that weren’t deemed problematic by the community won’t receive any changes here.


Weather

The Dark Sea resides in a constant state of storm, and it sure does give it the eerie, hostile appearance it is said to give off. But, some weather events take it way too far with their disruption of the player’s run, to the point where it is just annoying.

Magic Tornadoes

The tornadoes are undeniably a threat. If there is one nearby, you have to be aware of it. They are a way for the Dark Sea to say “you’re not welcome here!”. However, they are a nigh-constant annoyance, always in the way, unexpected and have the area of their effect far larger than the players expect it to be.

Tornadoes share the spawn area with the Large Waves - a cone of a player’s vision. This means, the tornado will always spawn blocking your path. Moreover, returning from an island will most probably summon a tornado right on top of your ship - the tornado seeks the closest patch of the sea to generate on, and that place will often be where the ship is parked, since the player will obviously be looking in that direction. Not to mention, the magic-imbued tornadoes of the Dark Sea are able to inflict their effect on players in a far larger area than their pull, they are able to trap a player under any kind of roof and kill them if they spawn close enough, and they can create Large Waves out of themselves, for some reason.

Tornadoes will not be able to generate close to the player or their ship.

Both players and their ships will receive a large no-spawn zone around them. Players might already have that, but ships do not. Nobody wants to wait on an island for the freshly-generated tornado to disappear from their ship.

On spawn, a unique animation of wind swirling will play before the tornado actually appears and gains its abilities.

This will be a heads-up for the player, so they could adjust their ship’s course to avoid the incoming tornado.

Shadow-imbued Tornadoes should be made more visible.

A stationary threat that the player is supposed to avoid shouldn’t be taking the stealth route. Just the unique noise isn’t enough.

A tornado’s grab will be limited in duration, and afterwards, the player is given immunity to the lift.

This is merely a failsafe, but can also assist the player in some cases.

The spawn cone for tornadoes should be made wider, so they won’t always get in the way.

For some players, the previous ranges of the Dark Sea are just distance to cross on the way to the Far Reaches, let’s not make the journey a dodging simulator. Besides, constantly having a tornado in the face irritates quickly.

Tornadoes will spawn less often.

Their uptime is near constant. Why so?

Tornadoes will release waves less often.

This feature didn’t make sense from the very beginning, but after some adjustments to Large Waves down the list, it won’t be annoying anymore, so just a reduction in their numbers will suffice. It’ll still break laws of physics, though…

Imbued Large Waves

The most ever-present of the annoyances. These will deal chip damage to your ship and snatch whoever isn’t sitting at a cannon or the steering wheel.

Waves can’t grab anymore.

People had enough of that. Letting go of your seat can prove to be a death sentence for no fault of your own, especially when a certain other mechanic prompts you to do so. This layer of diffuculty is unnecessary. Besides, Dark Sea fishers are tired of repositioning themselves every minute.

Back in the Team Immersion’s suggestion, this issue of waves was already covered.

DoT magic-imbued waves (mostly Acid) must have their damage reduced.

An Acid-imbued wave is a durability nuke of ±3k off your ship. Considering that large waves often spawn very close to the ship, that hit is unavoidable. Players should never have to be punished for something they had no chances of preventing.

Large Waves’s hitboxes, as well as other bugs, should be fixed.

This isn’t an intentional feature of theirs, but is still worth mentioning. And, while we’re at it, a fishing rod’s bobber shouldn’t get removed by a passing wave either.

Water Poisoning

I hope this is the last time I am bringing up this mechanic. It has shown up far too often in my suggestions.

Most of the discussion was held in this topic and the topics linked to it. Water Poisoning as a topic of complaints must be finally put to rest.


Spawns of the Dark Sea

The various objects and creatures that aren’t islands, but still spawn within the location. They can be a surprising encounter or grant rewards for finding them, but can also end your run due to their flaws.

Abandoned Ships

A structure that mostly appears in Insanity 0 area, these ships hold zero value as a structure. Just a few chests and, occasionally, a Dark Sealed or two. Why bother visiting them?

This suggestion could be a potential solution. A feature being useless isn’t as high on the priority list as a feature being harmful, so this shouldn’t be handled before all other problems get fixed.

Stray Cargo.

Prior to the Full Release, finding a stray cargo crate would instantly restore a decent chunk of your ship’s Durability, and it was a pleasant find. Nowadays, it is just around 50-70 Supplies. Underwhelming.

Dark Sea’s lost cargo should yield a lot more supplies, to match the pre-FR version of itself in effectiveness.

Just like the abandoned ships, stopping to pick a cargo crate isn’t worth doing. That shouldn’t be the case. No mechanic should be useless.

Both Abandoned Ships and Lost Cargo should have their spawn rates increased across Insanity 1-4 areas, with them gradually decreasing towards the Far Reaches.

This shouldn’t be a Insanity 0-exclusive discovery. But, the further you sail, the rarer you should find them, seems logical enough. Plus, this would boost the spawn rate of Ghost Ships in those Insanity areas, which can give a sizeable speed boost when rammed.

The bug that slows the ship down as it rams through a ghost ship should be fixed.

This bug has appeared after the Full Release. Safe to say, we don’t need it in the game.

Krakens and Giant Krakens.

This is a life or death encounter. If you summon one of these, you will either get demolished in seconds, or get far enough to cheese the fight without risk. However, I am not here to suggest a new version of the boss fight against these creatures - let’s leave that to those who know this better than me. I will just provide a temporary, band-aid fix.

Krakens won’t spawn right next to players anymore.

Sensing should be able to warn us about danger, if we use it. But, it can’t do much against danger that appears right below us out of nowhere.

Also, fix the bugs with Sensing, it shouldn’t go black screen in the Dark Sea. I know it can be toggled on and off quickly again to remove these side effects, but most players don’t know that.

A Kraken’s spawn should have special sound effects and visuals, indicating its arrival before even the tentacles emerge.

A threat as massive as a Kraken shouldn’t be stealthy. White Eyes has its signature wail, and it doesn’t start attacking you immediately, unlike the Kraken. Also, the Quartermaster’s warning should go off during the warning, not when the tentacles are already there. Its current timing makes the message worthless.

During the first minute of the encounter, a Kraken won’t be able to grab the ship. The counter resets after leaving the area.

Players must have at least a chance of escaping a threat they don’t want to deal with. You can outspeed other sea monsters with your ship - why should Krakens be an exception for no particular reason?

The weekly quest of killing 13 Krakens should be removed entirely.

Nobody wants to do that, especially that many of them. This is much more difficult and time-consuming than any other weekly quest by a large margin.

The Omen

It didn’t take long for the players to find out how to cheese this Abyssal-tier sea monster. This was supposed to be a raid boss, mind you. And yet, the same flaws Krakens have, it inherits. Either cheese it or die.

Or it can just be bugged and don’t do anything. Or just never spawn at all, especially when you want it to. So much for a powerful raid boss, eh?

Many people proposed different solutions to the Omen problem. Here’s one of them. They all agree on one thing - the current bossfight is flawed and must be reworked from the ground up, the Omen shouldn’t be a Kraken but bigger.

Sunken Forests

The most useless feature of the Dark Sea. At least volcanoes are used to cheese the Omen, the forests have no use whatsoever and occupy an enormous area. Using deckhands with their crappy AI to harvest Supplies from these massive trees isn’t enough.

Size of Sunken Forests is drastically reduced.

While the forest is there, nothing else can generate. They take away major parts of the Dark Sea from players, and prevent something actually useful from appearing.

Breaking the colossal trees should grant Supplies.

Restocking on Supplies could be one of the potential uses of the structure.

But don’t stop there - add more uses! The forests’ spawn rate was cut in half recently, but it still isn’t enough. So, instead of reducing it further, we must aim to give them enough use to warrant such spawn rate.

Maybe make Giant Krakens spawn withing those forests’ central areas, instead of wherever?

Just a possible idea of how to make Giant Krakens’ spawn locations less random and occasional. Requiring somebody more qualified than myself to continue this thought.

Atlantean Ships

The mobile threat of the Dark Sea. You either never see them, or have to constantly ward them off. Ketches are free repairs, while Brigs are run enders. Who balanced these?

Atlantean Ships’ spawn locations should be made more consistent.

Right now, an area can appear sometimes, and while a player-driven ship is inside, Atlantean Ships will continuously spawn. Such areas should be made more common, but the spawn rate within them will be reduced, as well as their size. Go for “more often, less abundant” route.

Atlantean Ships should be made weaker than their War Seas’ counterparts.

In the Dark Sea, you risk your Durability way more than outside of it. An encounter with a Brig is a lot more threatening, when you don’t have a shipwright around the corner. Less Durability and Damage will suffice.

After leaving the decreased in size spawn area of Atlantean Ships, all the current ones will drop their aggro.

If a player doesn’t want to fight the fleet, they must not be forced to. Atlanteans are too relentless in their pursuit.


Islands

The main stationary locations of the Dark Sea, the islands contain the most loot, but also the most threats.

Volcanoes

But, at the start, there is the one that doesn’t contain anything. Volcanoes are completely useless, aside from cheesing the Omen or Krakens.

While the Dark Sky isn’t implemented yet and the volcanoes haven’t received their function as gateways to it, they must be given a use.

Some suggested Tartarus Tears to spawn there, which is very valid - they only appear on one biome type, which is pretty rare to find. As a jewel reagent, that isn’t fair.

Siren Rocks

This isn’t a problematic feature, and is only mentioned for one reason.

The change that reduced the amount of Dark Sealed chests should be reverted.

There wasn’t a reason to nerf it, nobody bothers to collect the chests anyway since the Fleets were added. I don’t like the irreversible damage Fleets inflicted onto the game…

Dark Sealed chests should have a way to be opened within the Dark Sea.

As long as Fleets’ Conquest task and the daily quests that award them exist, Dark Sealed chests that spawn naturally have became worthless, since nobody wants to waste hours bringing them back. Maybe Esmeralda’s second tier as a quartermaster will get an ability of opening sealed chests?

Animals

They did bring more life to this hostile location, but was giving them percentage-based damage that necessary?

I’ll just copy and paste the part from the Team Immersion’s suggestion.

“Rocky Mesa” or “Overhang” island biome type

This was once a byproduct of failed generation, left as a feature, if rumors are to be believed. However, people don’t like this, as navigating the island is way too tedious, compared to other biomes. Plus, there isn’t anything unique to the biome in terms of collectibles.

The biome is removed from the game entirely.

Yeah, cool easter egg and all, but it is too hard to explore and loot. The actual easter egg of biomes, the Pirate Treasure biome, at least has tons of chests to its name.

Poisonous Water Ponds and the Liquid Starlight

One of the most recent additions to the Dark Sea was making every inland water source toxic. Why?

The poison effect is now way shorter, and applies over and over while the player is inside the pond (both toxic water and Liquid Starlight), instead of being a fixed, long-lasting effect.

Just a small touch shouldn’t erase a third of your health bar. Why was this overlooked when adding the feature in the first place?

Imbued and Golden (Gods’) Cooking Pots and Cauldrons

A great opportunity to stock up on the highest quality meals or potions, these stations are a pleasant discovery. But, they aren’t that easy to spot, even with their glow.

The stations will receive unique Sensing highlights, which will disappear once the station is converted back to the standart one.

They are imbued with magic energy, normal or conjured by Hestia or Hermes. It makes perfect sense for us to be able to see their auras.

Hecate Essence

The other contagious topic of the Dark Sea. The community has been rampant about it ever since it was added. Such inequality between stat routes is unacceptable. The Essence was already talked to death by many people,and there are so many suggestions regarding it.

Make magic change more accessible to match the other three routes, by any means deemed fitting, even if it goes against the game’s design choices.

We all know changing your magic is supposed to be very difficult, so players would stick with one. But, this is a videogame, and videogames are played to have fun.

Also, fix the various spawn bugs of Hecate Essence appearing inside walls. And, give it a unique Sensing highlight too, it is literally remains of the Goddess of Magic, after all.

Dragons

Oh hey, a recent addition to the Dark Sea that is actually fun! Aside from all the accompanying mechanics of a dragon’s fight that shouldn’t be there…

Reduce the amount of particle effects during a dragon fight to decrease lag, and make the Blast Barrage attack of Full-Grown+ Dragons deal less damage.

The barrage’s hitbox is already way larger than it seems, it doesn’t have to be this punishing.

Other issues of Dragons have already been covered in this suggestion.

As for the Damaged and Ruined Armour - this has been touched upon in the Team Immersion’s suggestion.


Well, that should be it. A very long suggestion indeed, all the quotes surely did bloat it. But, this one won’t be the best of me, since, after all, it is just the second one. The largest do come in groups of 3.

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I know you said you were going to make an omega dark sea suggestion but i didn’t think you’d make it so thorough.

HUH?

I’m glad i contributed to this even if only a minuscule amount

Hecate should lowkey be bottle-able
I totally agree with everything else

dumb question, sorry to undermine your suggestions, but isnt the whole point of the dark sea is it being incredibly unfair and a waste of time?

like its not just a post story experience for people wanting a challenge, its also a sloppy mess for anyone unfortunate enough to try going into it

why exist if waste of time?

and sure, it is supposed to be unforgiving and difficult, but it very easily just becomes a nuisance and annoying (What gameplay value does damaging armour serve?)

What is the point of water poisoning if a single click completely invalidates it

also, the tornado just spawning on your boat right before you get there when you have already looted the entire island. Also the shadow tornado’s almost being invisible.
Would you consider it good gameplay design if you just took damage from something you could not see even when it was straight in front of your face?

or a wave basically spawning underneath your boat, + specific wave types being more dangerous than others
Impossible to avoid is a step up from simply being unfair

and water poisoning is still just obnoxious

Also Krakens spawning directly under my ship when i was already on the island for 10 minutes, shouldn’t there have been some warning? At least the giant white eyes have a long time before they do take a bite out of ship even when i park

A very reasonable set of suggestions to bring up the quality of the Dark Sea! Personally, the one complaint I have is just how easy it is to cheese Dragons. I’ve found that for both Young and Adolescent Dragons (I’m sure it applies to all the others), as long as you stay far away from them and shoot them at a distance with your longest-range skills and spells, they’re really just free money and free Recovery V foods because they will just not aggro onto you, even though you’re literally attacking them.

If that got fixed I think dragons would be a more balanced threat because they won’t be as easy to deal with if you’re build is focused mainly around ranged attacks, otherwise it just makes people stay away from melee focused builds because of the cheesey ranged ones like Mage or Conjurer can offer.

Very good points and suggestions here. I agree with basically everything you said!

I also have some Dark Sea related complaints & suggestions that I posted on the AO reddit a few weeks ago if you’re looking for some ideas. Check out the post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcaneOdyssey/comments/1t8p1nz/the_dark_sea_potential_vs_design_faults_and_how/

You underestimated me?

Eh, no, that is way too much. It is fine to leave Magic as the hardest route to change the loadout on, it is just the gap between it and the second place (Strenght) that needs to be made smaller.

For Strenght, you have to sail to predetermined locations, pay a tiny fee in Drachma, and then genocide Fort Talos until you hit Master (Basic Combat is an exception). This is the baseline difficulty level that Hecate needs to surpass, but not by much.

Lore-wise, it is an extremely hostile and impossible to survive location, yes, but it doesn’t warrant it being this bad in a videogame. Besides, we got that Legacy blood in us, we can pull a lore reason or two out of our ahh to explain, how can we endure the Dark Sea like that.

Cheese?

Huh? I never heard of that. Any damage inflicted should jolt the dragon awake and begin the fight, and, due to the bug that makes animals spawn stuck in the ground and dragons’ LoS requirement, you most often can’t damage a dragon at all before it sees you and rises up.

Anyway, if this is true, it is most certainly a bug.

Strenght builds being in such disadvantage in PvE is a legit problem. They shouldn’t be forced to use Cannon Fist just to play the game.

Aight, will check those out

Well, first, that isn’t allowed by the rules. Only people who were granted the Suggestor role can post anything like that. This is Reddit, and not the forums, so maybe the rule doesn’t properly apply, but it still feels wrong to me.

The game’s failure to support group content.

This is more of a Roblox problem, with the recent changes. However, this is still a solvable issue for AO.

This was one of the ideas proposed to fix the same issue you pointed out, but more in general rather than for the Dark Sea specifically.

Sure, that might work, but the issue of players using it to bounty hunt the crowd must be solved. A permanent PvP-off while in a party formed by teleporting to the outpost? Leaving the party instantly re-enables your PvP if it was on before, but not the other people’s (so you can’t damage them, but they can damage you) for 30 seconds or so while warning the entire group?

Navigating the Dark Sea is one-note and unrewarding.

I don’t completely agree with this point. The Dark Sea is essentially a nuked wasteland, so there can’t be content on every step, and there is quite some sense of progression across Insanity ranges. Dying wastes your time? Well, maybe, but if the changes I proposed will go through, then all the infuriating RNG deaths should end, and you’ll only die, if it was your fault to begin with.

These ideas and the benefits the levels unlock are great, in my opinion, and deserve a separate suggestion of their own, but more people than just two should be looking into those before stating the actual verdict. Redditors can’t really be trusted, so that audience below the post doesn’t count.

The lack of interaction in the Dark Sea.

This isn’t really relevant to the current issues discussed in the topic. We’re here to give attention to the present problems that harm the playing experience. The point you bring up is “The Dark Sea wasn’t updated enough, and is lacking features”, which is solvable just by creating an another Dark Sea update.

The features you propose might get looked into by other people later, but they aren’t on the priority list. Fixing the already existing stuff comes before adding something new.

I know the rules , and I’m trying to apply for the role to get ideas out. It’s just taking a long time.

For the Dark Sea Outpost, I agree that I didn’t really take the PVP side into consideration since I’m a PVE player. But you could just add it as a safe zone that automatically turns off pvp to fix the issue. I just think this game really needs a party finder to support all the multiplayer developments. And out of curiosity, do the devs actually read the posts here? The Revamped Parties sounds like a REALLY good addition to the game, but its been months and nothing is being done? Facilitating interactions between players is the most fundamental problem that needs to be solved in a multiplayer game.

For my point on the Dark Sea being boring, I still stand by that there is little to no strategy beside blind sailing. The player has no agency in what the game decides to throw at them, which is just plain frustrating – a video game should never make the player feel like there is nothing they can do. Also it is just WAY too punishing. Just compare this to the main game: if you die to a boss, you don’t have to sail 20 minutes just to get back, and you can even summon a ghost to help you. Dying in insanity 4 is literally one of the most demotivating experiences for a player, regardless if its a skill issue or not (and to be honest, most players are not that skilled, but that doesn’t mean the game should be frustrating to them). This is why I propose the dark sea exploration profession, so that even if you die, you come back stronger the next time (like in Hades, you’re expected to die, but each run you gain resources that permanently boost your character so you still feel like you’re making some progress).

For my final point on the lack of interaction in the dark sea, I concede to your point. Yes, more updates can fix this issue. I just don’t like the idea that “desert biomes” in video games just have to be a wasteland of nothingness (case and point, take Elden Ring for example). A game is meant to be fun and interactive. Giving us Sameria sized islands with 2 atlanteans just doesn’t work. That’s all that I’m saying.

All of your suggestions are great and incredibly necessary, but to give an analogy: they are patching up the holes on a poorly routed pipe. Of course, that pipe needs to be fixed, but we also need to question some larger design issues. It is just in my personality to look at the macro side of things.

Read through all the requirements and the topics explaining how to apply carefully, then. That stuff’s important.

This is easy to do. The main problem is people leaving the party after the expedition has started and killing off the entire team.

It really does.

Most probably not. Even the discord bot that displayed suggestions has stopped working in January. But, I still keep my hopes high.

True.

This suggestion here has attempted to solve the huge time investment issue.

Yes, this is what I aim to achieve. I have lots of new features and ideas in mind, but I don’t make suggestions on them, just so they wouldn’t shift the focus from what is necessary right here and now. New features are of less priority to me than the present flaws.

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I believe the bug with dragons has been around since the release of the dragon update, usually it fixes itself when you get close to a dragon and it starts attacking like it should. I’ve also had the experience of the dragon attacking me like it should, then I get far away from it but still close enough to hit it at a range and it also just stops attacking, so their aggro range and/or pathfinding A.I is screwed somewhere if I had to make an educated guess.

I only really see that happening on adolescent and below dragons

once the dragons get big enough the problem instead gets flipped where the dragon can attack while you are incapable of hitting them at enough range

I haven’t fought any dragons a tier above Adolescent yet because I’ve mostly stuck to Insanity 0-1 so I wouldn’t know or will know 'till i see it for myself, I’m waiting on the arcanium weapons bug to get fixed right now.

Gonna be fr I’m not reading allat :sob: maybe later today I’ll actually look at some of this, sounds like most of it is about tornadoes though.

Maybe Esmeralda can offer a quest to create a lockpick tool of some kind for dark sealed chests? That way you aren’t forced to have her on your ship instead of a quartermaster you actually want.

Excellent suggestion overall, looking forward to part 3.

Aw man sometimes I intentionally use it as a makeshift flight spell

Yes

Nope, they just got multiple points to talk about, thats all

Enizor doesn’t bring much, he is replaceable

Hey, you got those 10 seconds of lift, thats more than enough